SeaTac workers “not happy” with $15 min. wage

sea tac

Last January, SeaTac implemented a $15 per hour minimum wage for hospitality and transportation workers. The consequences to the drastic hike in wages are just beginning to be realized—and it’s not pretty.

A writer for NW Asian Weekly recently blogged about her experience attending an event at a SeaTac hotel. She asked employees if they were “happy with the $15 wage.” The ensuing conversations,

“It sounds good, but it’s not good,” the woman said.

“Why?” I asked.

“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.

“The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.

“What else? I asked.

“I have to pay for parking,” she said.

“I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.

“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.”

Quick Poll

SeaTac is a small city—10 square miles in area and a population of 26,909—with an economy almost exclusively defined by the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Five months into the implementation of a $15 minimum wage and it appears that a deep sense of regret has already flooded the city and workers who should have “benefited” from the terrible economic policy.

Meanwhile, as the largest city in the Pacific Northwest and one of the fastest growing major cities in America, Seattle is on the verge of following in SeaTac’s woefully unfit footsteps. Seattle Mayor Ed Murray’s $15 minimum wage plan includes a phase-in period of three to seven years and makes no exception for business type or size. Murray’s plan elicited back-lash from prominent Seattle businesses owners and economists alike.


Click here to sign the petition against the $15 minimum wage!

  • MeanieHead

    See??????? We told ya all to tell the Commie witch of Seattle to STFU. YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED because everyone knows COMMUNISM DOESN’T WORK.

    • GMI

      I disagree with a $15/hour minimum wage as well… But, for accuracy’s sake, I have to say that it isn’t communism… Please research what some of the “ism”s are before you use them. Oh wait… It’s the Internet. I ask too much.

      • Tom Sharples

        You’re right.Mindless liberal progressivism would be more accurate, but communism has a nicer ring to it.

    • Puddin’ Head

      25 billion commies must be wrong. Obviously only capitalism works because everyone in the US is so happy!

      • Erthwjim

        Where is this world with 25 billion people?

        • Robin Hood

          It’s a generalization, troll…

          GO outside, discover FLOWERS & try a low hate diet….

  • Guest

    I agree with you, but there is an inaccuracy here. There is no way the worker’s hourly wage was $7 before the new law. The last time Washington’s minimum wage was that low was 2003. Before the SeaTac law, the minimum wage was $9.19.

    • R.J. Hood

      Employees who receive tips from customers as a part of their pay…food servers, bartenders, strippers…rarely get minimum wage. The tips usually equal more than their hourly wage.

      • LuAnn

        They do in Washington.

    • Joel Waugaman

      Actually businesses were allowed to pay below minimum wage as long as tips or commission pay brought it up above minimum wage.

    • Ian Cook

      Yup, my B.S.- o-meter was going of from the first sentence on this article. There is virtually nothing true in the story.

  • Brett Davis

    There was a separate minimum for wait staff due to tips, hence the $7 an hour minimum wage figure.

  • Suspicious Student

    This title should read, ” two seatac workers not happy with 15 minimum wage”. Two people out of 26k, compelling stuff. This site is has some really inept “journalism”.

    • Tom Sharples

      You’ve talked with the remaining 25,998? If not, why would you assume this small sample is somehow unique?

      • lawdawg541

        And what about the people with degree’s who make $15 an hour or less, do they get a wage hike too? Sad when a social worker at CPS might eyeball McDonalds to get a pay raise…

        • Ian Cook

          *degrees

      • Richard Magnuson

        All you have to do is use some common sense. You arbitrarily raise the cost of business and you get cuts to maintain profitability. Prices go up and less tips are given by the consumer. Duh.

        • luminus

          ya, CEO salaries cant ever be reduced to meet a livable wage for the ordinary worker..

      • mama sea

        um, basic statistics.

        • Tom Sharples

          So statistically speaking, you think it’s likely the reporter found the ONLY two workers out of 26,000 who experienced this problem?

          • Puddin’ Head

            If you understood statistics, you would know that that the likelihood that the reporter found the only two unhappy minimum wagers is exactly why statistics demands a more rigorous sampling before making sweeping generalizations. This is NOT statistics, and it is not responsible journalism.

          • Robin Hood

            It’s likely, the reporter reported their bias & used “evidence” to support it.

    • MaynardGKrebbs

      My question is where did you get the 26K figure ?That is the population and a majority of the population voted for this. NOT any employee from outside the town of Seatac. I would like to know how the fast food places are doing outside the airport terminal ? As well as some of the other small businesses.

      • Linda

        Fast Food employees inside the airport are NOT getting the $15/Hour. Since the Sea-Tac Airport is Port of Seattle, they do not have to abide by this wage. I know that some businesses and employees are not liking it at all. I have a friend that is a server at Denny’s and her tips have dropped as well as her hours at work

        • Ian Cook

          Tips have dropped because of conservatives not being happy about the minimum wage increase, they are showing their protest by taking it out on waiters and waitresses. Typical dirt bags.

          • 23x125TT

            Only conservatives eat in restaurants? Who knew?

          • Ian Cook

            No, conservatives are the only ones lowering tips.

          • Tom E. Noel

            HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW THAT ? are you going up to everyone who leaves a small tip or no tip and asking them if they are repub or dems , if not YOU A AN IDIOT

          • Ian Cook

            That’s awfully sweet of you. But, no, I have heard lots of conservatives actually say that they were going to start leaving smaller tips because they are greedy and selfish. I have yet to hear any liberals say the same thing. But hey, it is only anecdotal evidence.

          • Tom E. Noel

            did they say i am a conservative and i will not tip because i am protesting the ridiculous 15 an hour rip off of the consumer ?

          • Tom E. Noel

            or are you ASSuming they are conservative because they said they would no longer be tipping ?

          • Tom E. Noel

            if i do not TIP it is because i did not get the service i thought i should get, a tip is not DEMANDED, a tip is earned by the person doing the service,n T=ton i= insuren p=propern s=servicenyou are not entitled to a tip just because you showed up to workn

          • Peanut Head

            What a thoughtful and well voiced statement Tom “YOU A AN IDIOT”

          • Tom E. Noel

            i buy others peoples food in restaurants and then those people leave a bigger tip, does that make me an “evil” conservative? or should i have left a tip also and is that what makes me a “evil” republican

          • JenB

            Where is your proof that only conservatives are lowering their tips? That is a ridiculous statement based on no evidence whatsoever.

          • Ian Cook

            True, the only evidence I have is from conservatives telling me that they will stop giving tips. It’s not a nationwide study.

          • Kerrie Mantei

            If my waiter is making $15/hour I am NOT tipping ever again. That’s defies the entire concept behind tipping. At $15/hour, you are already getting paid to do your damn job.

          • Ian Cook

            ^^Case in point^^

          • LilMountain

            Yes all the fat cat conservative CEOs and all their meals at Denny’s

    • scott206

      You did notice it said the population was 26k, not that there were 26k minimum wage employees right?

    • LilMountain

      You’re right, I’m sure everyone else is LOVING the loss of their 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, vacation, free food, free parking, opportunity for overtime, etc

  • lawdawg541

    Seattle, the same douchebags who voted in a proud socialist city councilwoman. Bwwhaha….

    • JGSRELP

      Are you sure shes a socialist? Or is she a commie? A marxist? nnnYou gun nuts seem to interchange those statements without knowing anything about any of them. Stick with your coffee and guns, you cant handle much more than that.

      • lawdawg541

        Well, you boneheaded liberal, she has admitted to being a socialist in public so I took her at her word. Now go bury your head back in the sand…

        • Erik

          Ya you don’t know what socialism is do you?

        • Matt Haskins

          Gasp! A socialist! How scary. Socialism has no place in the US! If we elect a socialist we may as well socialize things like:nThe MilitarynLabor LawsnPublic roads and Interstate SystemsnLaw EnforcementnFire ResponsenElectionsnPrisonsnNational Park ServicesnFood and Drug SafetynPublic LibrariesnNational Security (eg, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security)nPublic HousingnPublic EducationnJust about anything with “Public” in its namenDisease Control and PreventionnSpace ProgramsnSnow RemovalnAirportsnAir Traffic ControlnElectronic Spectrum Regulations (eg, the FCC)nThe Court SystemnCurrency Engraving and PrintingnnOh…..wait….

          • torkzilla

            moron alert!

          • askal2u

            No, the only morons are the liberal socialist democRATS like you who want the taxpayers like us to pay everything to lazy social welfare leeches and give green cards to illegal aliens so they can add to the millions of socialists dependent from the government to give them welfare.

          • ricciricci

            Reagan would be so disappointed in you.

          • LOLokay

            IS that why out of the 10 ten states that take in the most taxpayer money are red states that overwhelming vote republican?nnWhy is it that republicans talk about how lazy democrats are, but the most republican areas produce the least in tax dollars but take in the most?

          • dwells

            could they be bringing in more tax dollars because the economy is booming??? Raising the tax rate doesn’t mean more taxes money coming into the state

          • remainderman

            dwells, To a liberal, more tax money means nothing. It’s the tax rate and how much the rich are paying. Remember, it’s not about how much tax revenue is brought in, it’s about how much the government controls everything. A liberal isn’t happy until the economy is depressed and everyone has to vote for them so they can keep getting their meager public handouts. Why do the idiots in Detroit keeping voting democrat year after miserable year? Simple, all the decent people have left and the welfare thugs rule the roost.

          • LlarryLLama

            Liberals use taxes as a means of control, not to generate revenue. If liberals don’t like something, they try to tax it out of existence, or at least make it too expensive (see gasoline, cigarettes, small corporations, etc.etc.) That is why Republican states “take in more tax dollars”, according to LOLokay.

          • Robin Hood

            Cons = cheapo nuts, that want into your bedroom to tell you how to F, then want tax free churches to judge said Fn.

          • remainderman

            Wow. I detect shards of the English language in your reply, but not connecting what you said with any of my post. I’m guessing you think I’m a church-going, homophobic–or non-missionary position-phobic–judgmental, conservative, and that my taking a jab at the giddiness of liberals’ school-girl crush on high taxes and collectivism, gives you the right to lump me in with all those imagined tea party monsters and other things that go bump in the night that cause you to wet your pants every night.nnnBut, I can broad brush and lump with the best of them. How’s this?: Take some time off trying to best your last blunt roll and actually go to a church meeting or a tea party gathering. See how much time they spend telling others how to F. My guess is, even if you bring it up, not much will be said.

          • Robin Hood

            Already been & they’re pretty upset I have an openly gay friend….nnnOf course, As for you being all cons, nice reality. I understand the constant drug references & don’t see adult “logic”.

          • Rdanmin

            I believe you may want to check your top 10 ten list again. Pretty damn sure you have some mistakes. Or did you just make your list up ?

          • LlarryLLama

            Figures, facts and proof, please..

          • VoteLibertarian

            You people I swear…All of you..If we could get rid of both you dems and rep we would be better off..

          • Robin Hood

            Kent Snyder… RIP.

          • Dave Graupmann

            Uhh none of those things are socialism though

          • McChimp

            Are you serious right now? All of those things are social programs. Social as in socialist.

          • McChimp

            As in paid for by society for the benefit of society. If you want a “limited government” go to Somalia and see how they like it.

          • ricciricci

            Somalia… LOL -well at least you know of one other place on the planet that isnt the USA. Come on, if you are going to go forward with your “debate”, you have to have something in your bag stronger than Somalia. ROFL

          • lolwut

            Why when all Republicans have are made up bullshit storys?nnThis article doesn’t even have any sources. Republicans will believe anything…

          • http://rwpcs.com rwperkinsjr

            Obama was born in the U.S… Nope, I still don’t believe it. I guess we don’t believe anything.

          • Steve Walden

            I have a better idea, how about you and all your libtard friends go to Somalia so that the adults can get this country back on track! Please read my reply to mental midget who posted the list because it applies to your as well.

          • Robin Hood

            …”because it applies to your as well.”nnnAlways informative to read the insults, from self-professed “superior intellectuals”.

          • Brianna Aubin

            Idiot that’s anarchy. If you’re going to argue with libertarians on the proper size of government then at least learn what libertarianism IS first. Hint: it’s not anarchy.

          • LlarryLLama

            Somalia isn’t limited government, it is a fragmented, anarchistic lack of government. The United States was founded on the very principals of limited government, not anarchy–two very different things.

          • Steve Walden

            Hey Matt, you’re one smug dumbass. FYI, The military, Currency, etc. those powers are granted to the Federal Government via the constitution you dim wit. Other things you mention, are NOT. For example public eduction. The federal government has no business in public eduction, that is supposed to be left up to the states. Did you know that the Federal Department Of Education only came into existence under the Carter administration in the 70’s and did you know that BEFORE the70’s the United States was #1 in the world in education. Of all the things you sited in your imbecilic little list, the things which the Federal Government is supposed to do, they do well, i.e. the Military. But the things that they are not constitutionally allowed to do, but do anyway, THEY SUCK AT, i.e. public eduction. So, thanks for making our point you liberal twit! You should read the 10th amendment and when you do, read it with the understanding that there are only 18 enumerated powers granted to the federal government by the Constitution and the rest of the powers are supposed to fall to the States and the people.

          • Emojigirl

            *cited…

          • artfuldgr

            Lots of things are defined by the constituition, but eh socialist dems dont seem to be reading it, understanding it, and working to ignore or change it… so whats the point your making? we follow a document we dont follw? at least wih the chronies of the past we got bridges and such, not a trillion dollar loss and nothing to show for it (see education), and so much stuff i could list its not funny. but note, since they murdered thousands of blacks during hayes tilden, and mutilated a lot more, they havent changed all that much… (but how would you know what they did in the past, as i dont think they like to admit things like segregation of the military, income tax promised to remain at 1% for ever, and now is 90 times higher, and so on)

          • Robert Beckwith

            Your post doesn’t make much sense; on the one hand you seem to be against the constitution (because it’s imperfect?) and for some form of socialism.Then you seem upset that the about trillion dollar losses (debt?) and an income tax over 1%, that has been caused by social engineering (socialism). You also seem upset that we aren’t a perfect society by citing things from the past and implying we’ve made no progress as a nation. BTW, I am aware of the past because I’ve lived thru 76 years of it!

          • FJF1085

            I mean, just to be clear, the government does not “do” the military well. It’s a horribly inefficient system, their personal and medical records systems are appalling and spread over hundreds of outdated systems which they made moves to rework into one, well one for each branch for some reason. However after billions and billions of dollars pretty much each of the branches has either abandoned their project or drastically cut down the scope as they try and stubbornly maintain their legacy systems. The Pentagon is the only federal government agency who has never passed, let alone even had, an outside audit for the simple reason that they aren’t even auditable because of the horrible condition of their records. So, if the government is doing the military well the definition of well is terribly off.nnAs for the 10th amendment, you’re right remaining powers are reserved to the states and to the people, however the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause have been interpreted by all three branches of government to give the federal government wide ranging authority. That being said the Supreme Court has recently begun reining in the federal government’s powers by citing the 10th amendment so I suppose that is a good thing.

          • Candace Zingg

            You didn’t mention the cost of those other bloated and inefficient federal agencies. The FACT is Socialism is a failed experiment. I know I know all my college prof went on and on about Europe….. But as I sat there saying, the day will come when they run out of money…… That day has come….. These countries are bankrupt, and are changing policies, yet the media and trenched in Democrats refuse to acknowledge the changes….. They still want to be ” Europe”….. I guess maybe its that exceptionalism American Ego thing, where they think they can make it work……

          • Dave Ivie

            Not only has socialism failed (time and time again) the Scandinavian countries and Germany have adopted a capitalistic approach and have much more successful economies as a result.

          • Jake Azeris

            So you think by saying socialism has failed again and again that will make it true? Capitalism has failed again and again, it caused the Great Depression and the Bush-Cheney recession, nitwit.

          • Vic R

            I would rather have 100 recessions than live under a ruler. Democrats and socialists rule, they do not govern for the people. All are equal but some are more equal than others…

          • Jake Azeris

            Is that why Republicans try to control who people marry and what they watch? Republicans are selfish incompetents who cant govern.

          • Arnold Layne

            Jake, can you name me one state that had or has a law on the books that says “gays” can’t marry?

          • Diggs

            No, it didn’t. CRONY CAPITALISM did. Put down your cool aid and crack open some history and economic books. Austrian economists predicted the great depression exactly as it happened, the reason… First the fed reserve (crony capitalism) helped create artificially low interest rates giving businesses the incentive to invest during the wrong time helping to create an unsustainable bubble. When reality hit and the bottom fell out, government sponsored wealth redistribution, corporate bailouts, (sound familiar?) and Anti economic policies prolonged the pain at the expense of the poor. Blaming the great depression on Capitalism shows just how little you know of American history and your own government.

          • Scott Pietruszka

            Does anyone know what the balance of capitalism with socialism so all are bound by the same rules is called… it’s called Communism. Flat tax=Communist. Term Limits for all or none=Communist.

          • FJF1085

            Regarding Europe, that is not exactly true. Southern Europe is having a lot of problems but in many ways its from corruption. If you look at Scandinavia, arguably one of the most socialists regions in the world, they have very high social development, a high quality of life, their people are happy, healthy and productive and yet most of the main social services, are socialized. Education, Health Care, housing things like that are provided by the government, and while they do have high taxes the people don’t seem to mind since they are getting something in return. The problem in this country is socialism is kind of an all or nothing thing. A lot of things are partially socialized, medicare, medicaid, section 8 etc., but not everything and this is the problem. Our system leaves holes for people to fall through. If the approximately 1 trillion dollars of student loan debt didn’t exist (either because higher education was paid by the government or some kind controls were instituted on education inflation) there would be all that money floating around in the economy being put to work. Young people would be able to get married, buy a house and start a family sooner thus spurring economic development. IF the federal government took that TARP fund and paid off everyones credit cards instead of bailed out the banks, and don’t be fooled the amounts are about the same, then all of that money would have allowed people to start spending and prosper again. If I didn’t have 500$ in student loans a month to pay I’d actually be able to afford to start thinking about a family, but I can’t because of the debt. SO, God knows when I will able to do any of that. I’m already 28 with a MS in Biology and I’m no where near where my Dad was at my age. My Dad never finished the 11th grade, makes 147,000$ a year and a half million dollar home thats paid for. When he was my age he had already been married for 2 years, had 100k in the bank, had a kid on the way and owned a home. I just feel like the American people, especially my generation, has had our futures stolen from us. 30 years ago you could go to college for a couple thousand a semester. At UConn, which is in state for me, cost 14k a year when I started, when my brother graduated last year it was already over 20k a year and that was in the space of about 9 years. The quality of education did not increase proportionally so the only explanation is we are being robbed. IF our society truly valued tertiary education it would be made a civil right and paid for by the government. Maybe if you want to go to a top level school it will cost extra, but public universities should be free or close to free. Health Care should be free, you shouldn’t have to worry about it, no other major industrialized nation makes their people pay for Health Care like we do. It’s appalling.

          • Robert Beckwith

            Are you from Scandanavia? Are you a U.S. citizen? Do you live here? Are you more than 40 yrs old? Just wondering………

          • FJF1085

            I am a natural born citizen of the United States of America and I have been a resident of Connecticut all my life. I am 28 years old. Just to clarify.

          • Scott Pietruszka

            While you are correct about most points you presented you failed at one:the bail out. The problem with any bailout is the government giving money it doesn’t have and needs to borrow to get. That includes giving the people the bailout money instead of the businesses. What should have happened is let those banks fail to the point that all the loans held by those banks were dropped and the loan recipients gained loan paid in full status. Then those banks then could be purchaded for infrastructure by other successful backs as a turn key business investment. This would allow people to gain possession of the titles to cars, homes, and businesses without having to pay back any interest or principle. Effectually it would have been the same as giving money without the neef to borrow. Then use the FDIC promise to allow account funds of private individuals to be maintained through the transfer and in case the failed bank failed do horribly they lost account holders money through bank investments. then arrrest those in the banks who essentially stole from the consumers and account holders for theft and make them pay restitution through prison work to cover the FDIC protection payouts. As for the car industry that bailout should never occurred because no company should ever have gotten too big too fail becausebthat means the Government failed to prevent either a monopoly or a trust.

          • Vic R

            FJF. Sorry but your take on Europe and Scandinavia is woefully inaccurate. Talking points of the social justice crowd. You mention nothing of the extreme suicide rates in those countries and prices and regulations so tight no one can rise above the lower class. People mind, but they choose that way of life…I firmly believe that it’s not anyone’s business to force their social justice upon what used to be the most successful and bountiful country in the world. IF you love those country’s…go move there and leave mine alone. I want to move to a free country but because of Democratic Social Re-engineering of the country designed to benefit only the Rich party members and power players, none exist anymore in the world…It’s not because people are choosing Government enslavement over freedom actively, it’s because they are ignorant and by the time they get wise, generations of dull witted “care nots” have been socially engineered to accept their lot in life. Shame on you and the rest of your kind.

          • Jake Azeris

            Wow, what ignorance. You know what other country is in the shitter financially? The U.S.! Your bone headed free market ideology is what caused the Bush-Cheney recession in the first place dumbass. Socialism is the best way to go, sorry to inject a little reality into your world bimbo

          • Dave Ivie

            Hey Jake, if you think socialism is such a wonderful thing, you are entitled to your opinion. Calling people names doesn’t help make your point. One of the downfalls of capitalism is the economic peaks and valleys. But it does have peaks. The downfall on socialism…well, it doesn’t have the peaks, merely the valleys. If socialism is so wonderful as you have stated, what are some examples of its great success? I mean we could talk about places like Spain with a 25% unemployment rate – 40% for young adults. Portugal, Italy, Greece…not really any better. As I mentioned previously, the Scandinavian countries and Germany have better economies, but only because they’ve adopted free market principles.
            Indeed – our country is not doing well financially. This is due to extreme debt, and a political environment that is not particularly business friendly. So…knowing that our country is in so much debt, and businesses are resistant to investing to grow at this time, how would socialism turn the economy around?
            BTW – there is no such thing as “the Bush-Cheney” recession. That recession was caused by a collapse of the US housing market due to the CRA regulations – but I suspect you know little about it. It started in the late 70s under the Carter administration when a lovely organization called ACORN pushed for legislation to lend money to lower income areas as a method for helping to stimulate the economy. When little traction was being made, they turned to Bill Clinton to further enforce this legislation, and start punishing banks for “redlining.” Of course Clinton circumvented congress and leveraged the justice department via executive order to give the legislation more teeth. Long story short, liberal policies forced banks to lower lending restrictions. Everyone qualified for loans. Housing prices increased dramatically. Many were unable to pay back loans. Bad loans were packaged as MBS (Mortgage Backed Securities) thru Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – and then the bubble burst big time. It took years, and a lot of players were involved – both liberal and conservative – but the genesis is this recession that we are still in…caused by liberal policy.

          • frustrated with dumbass voting

            you are simply clueless… Bush-Cheney recession…. try Clinton and everyone should be able to own their a home… regardless if they can pay rent or not….

          • Vic R

            Jake…Are you prepared to give up 60% of your hard earned money to give to someone that couldn’t give a damn about working and demands that you pay for their way of life while you contribute and they do not? I see by your picture you do like the finer things in life….fast toys…do you think those would exist in your socialist dream world where everyone is rich and no one is poor? Only problem is…where is all this money coming from for your socialist utopia? Answer?

            Will printing money simply fix it for you? Where do you think medical advancement would be today without capitalism…Who would make the jeans you wear and the cool glasses you love? No one because there is no reason to get out of bed in the morning with you have everything you think you need and a ruler over you head.

            Markets rise and fall and in the mean time they wipe out the inefficient and greedy operators. You want a perfect life…it doesn’t exist. Struggle, hard work, innovation, family values, charity…those things make society great…not a government.

          • Jake Azeris

            The health care system would be far better in a socialist system, that’s why the countries with the best health care systems have the most socialism. How do you feel that your fascist capitalism has led to the worst economic crashes in human history? he 1929 and 2008 collapses are both due to that failed economic system you praise. Government provides most innovation and charity, and hard work and struggle just lead to more struggle in a capitalist system.

          • Vic R

            Then move to Russia Jake. You and your kind only argue through personal insult because your vocabularies are too small to offer substantive rebuttals. Presidents and parties do not control the stock markets. Jake. Bill Clinton signed into law an act that forced the de-regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and forced lenders to offer loans to people that simply couldn’t afford them. Yet you blame the sitting president at the time of the crash for the free markets collapsing due to government meddling. The 1929 crash was due to people getting greedy…the working man when stories of people getting rich on the stock market forced prices to unrealistic levels…not the president at the time…Go to school and perhaps you’ll learn something rather than regurgitating the rubbish you get fed by your communist news media. If you love Socialism, go live in a country that provides that but it’s not your right to force your world view of Valhalla onto those that don’t want it. America has had it’s finest economic years under GOP rule and in turn its citizens have prospered. The moment a socialist gets in, they bugger up the system and make it impossible for the little man to get ahead. FACT

          • Arnold Layne

            What was the “major” cause of the 2008 recession?

          • Scott Pietruszka

            They are not all European countries are bankrupt. Those that are would not be if not so heavily invested in the US dollar and economy.

          • Vic R

            Without the Success of the German Economy, most of the EU wold be bankrupt. Take away the capitalist country and they all fall down. Fact.

          • Vic R

            Candace Zingg…Socialism is not a failed experiment..it as well as socialist dictatorships are the most successful experiments ever invented! They outnumber the Freedom based countries 100:1. While these systems program people via school brain washing programs and an unending barrage of lies and derisive tactics, it is a very successful form of social cancer. By the time it’s detected, you’re too infected.

          • Vic R

            What exactly DOES the government do well? in your opinion FJF1085…programmed robot name by the sounds of it. Perhaps I an reading your posts as if you are a social engineering fan…did I get you wrong?

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Aww, what’s wrong Steve, you get a little angry cause he injected a little reality into your world you raging dipshit? Like it or not, those things are SOCIALIST. And if you could read, the Constitution provides for a strong federal government, so it can get involved in public education whenever it wants. You afraid the evil government might actually teach real science, as opposed to the creationist garbage espoused by dim bulbs with a similar IQ as you? You fucking idiots trust the government with the military and nukes but anything else is a bridge too far. Fucking twat.

          • Steve Walden

            Jill,nyour ignorance abounds. Clearly you have not read the federalist papersnor any period articles or publicans written at the time of the ratification.nOtherwise, you would have known that the intent of the framers was to have anVERY MINIMAL federal government which is PRECIELY the reason for the 10thnamendment. Here are just a few quotesnfrom Founding Fathers, regarding limited government (pay attention the thirdnone especially because it addresses public education):nn nnu201c[T]he government of the United States is a definite government,nconfined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whosenpowers are more general.u201d James Madison, speech in the House ofnRepresentatives, January 10 1794nn”If Congress can do whatever in theirndiscretion can be done by money, the Government is no longer a limited one,npossessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particularnexceptions.” –James Madisonnnu201cIf Congress can employ money indefinitelynto the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the generalnwelfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they maynappoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of theirnpublic treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children,nestablishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume thenprovision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other thannpost-roads; in short, everything, from the highest object of state legislationndown to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power ofnCongress. … Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitudencontended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very naturenof the limited Government established by the people of America.” –JamesnMadisonnn”I think we have more machinery ofngovernment than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.”nu2013Thomas Jeffersonnnu201cTimid men prefer the calm ofndespotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.u201d – Thomas Jeffersonnn”In questions of power then, let no more be heard ofnconfidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of thenConstitution.” – Thomas Jeffersonnnu201cWith respect to the words general welfare, I have alwaysnregarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To takenthem in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of thenConstitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was notncontemplated by its creators.u201d – James MadisonnnI could go on and on and on with examplenafter example of who wrong and ignorant you are but I think my point itnmade. nnRemember Jill, it is u201cbetter to remainnsilent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt.u201d u2013 Abraham LincolnnnJust an FYI, in study after study, Conservativesnout performed Liberals in knowledge of Science, and government. Just thought you might find that interesting.nAlso, a study conducted at Harvard University shows that liberal have a lowernaverage IQ than conservative. (http://iahymnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/new-study-shows-liberals-have-a-lower-average-iq-than-conservatives/)nso just keep being dumb liberal. Oh andnSocialist actually scored the lowest. nHey, youu2019re the one who brought up science.

          • Jennifer Senn

            Thank you Steve. I was hoping some Patrick Henry/founding father quotes got in here.

          • https://www.etsy.com/shop/TroppoBella ThankfulE

            It astounds me that we can’t have a civilized debate without all the name-calling. Such puerile behavior, n’est pas? nnSteve, just because the intentions were “minimal”, does not mean that they have not morphed. The federal government has an enormous amount of power now, not least of all under the guise of our “safety”. nnTry reading this article: http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/united-states-pure-capitalismnnThere has been a switch now from Capitalism to Corporatism, and the two differ vastly. “…Under corporatism, most wealth and power is concentrated in the hands of giant corporations and big government is used as a tool by these corporations to consolidate wealth and power even further. In a corporatist system, the wealth and power of individuals and small businesses is dwarfed by the overwhelming dominance of the corporations. Eventually, the corporations end up owning almost everything and they end up dominating nearly every aspect of society. As you will see below, this very accurately describes the United States of America today. Corporatism is killing this country, and it is not what our founding fathers intended.nnThe following is the definition of u201ccorporatismu201d from the Merriam-Webster dictionaryu2026.nnthe organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdictionnnCorporatism is actually not too different from socialism or communism. They are all u201ccollectivistu201d economic systems. Under corporatism, wealth and power are even more highly concentrated than they are under socialism or communism, and the truth is that none of them are u201cegalitarianu201d economic systems. Under all collectivist systems, a small elite almost always enjoys most of the benefits while most of the rest of the population suffers…”

          • Carl

            Just curious what benefits can you not enjoy that the evil corporations enjoy? Anyone who works hard can have all the perks of the big corporations. To just blame someone else for your life is ridiculous! In the 80’s bill gates was a nobody 10 years later he is one of those evil big corporations! Is he running the government? Google? Facebook? No you only mean the evil oil companies. Typical liberals pick and chose winners and loser!

          • https://www.etsy.com/shop/TroppoBella ThankfulE

            Wow! What assumptions you make. Why would I be blaming anyone for my life? I love my life, silly man. Just because I have compassion, does not mean that I am needy, first and foremost. nnnNo one is saying that all corporate people are negative, however, big corps are currently responsible for some pretty devious and immoral stuff of late, and the government is,. not only letting them get away with it, but they are, furthermore, rewarding them. If you want to walk around with blinders on, or a cold heart, then be my guest, but it would really behoove you to learn some manners at some point.

          • Robin Hood

            Can I get Boeing’s Billions in tax breaks & pay no income tax on those Billions ???nnBill Gates was NEVER a nobody, the family was rich & he was accepted at Harvard.nnGeez, another blatherer.nnnGreat, arrange it, tea tw@t.

          • David Nelson

            You’re a fucking moron, people can never have the influence of corporations. Go sit in front of The TV and absorb your Fox fix twat.

          • Vic R

            Amazingly FOX news is one of the few stations that tried hard to present you, David Nelson, some fact about your social network’s failings in reporting. The general Media keeps you ignorant David. When they don’t report things you SHOULD know, then you stay dumb and ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and the likes…continue to misinform and misguide for the advertising dollars they receive and political favors they get. Keep the D’s in power and their money too will never stink. Ever thought past your nose on that one? Copper Top?

          • Vic R

            Well for one, Bill Gates now thinks he has the right to shove his personal agenda down your throat because he has money and you do not. All the social programs in place so he can keep his money and make you think he gives a damn about you. Sure get rich, and vote but don’t tell the rest of us that now you’re rich that you need to have a say in how we are governed simply because you can buy your way into politics.

          • juanita tedder

            It seems that they both share the end game and essentially are not all that different. But they are both made by men that are following their heads and hearts. Eventually, it all comes from a Godless nation who need a change of heart. There will always be evil men and women, but there used to be enough honorable men and women to check those excesses, today there are not. I am sure that they give enough money away to dull their conscious. Like Stalin with the chicken when asked how would he control people when he treated then so horribly, he picked up a chicken and pluck out its feathers while it was alive, put it down got a piece of bread and fed it and the chicken followed him.

          • Vic R

            Now here is someone who knows the difference! Bravo! Exactly. Corporatism creates rulers with one thing in mind, profit and the theft of opportunity. Big money elects big government ran by puppets that think the big companies will keep them in power. It’s one parasite living off of another. We elect our governing bodies and should not have to worry that someone with more money will shout louder and confuse the public into thinking that life under massive corporate control is better.

            I am okay with huge companies, but they shouldn’t be allowed to influence elections. Campaign finance reform needs to happen and Super PACs need to go away!

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            HAHAHA, do you actually think I’m reading all those made up quotes? The founding fathers were all liberal progressives and so was Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. Guess that leaves the retarded hicks left as conservatives. I love how you tout a random “study” from a right winger with no sources to say that conservatives are smarter than liberals. They actually have studied this and the opposite is true.nnhttp://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1968042,00.htmlnnhttp://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservativesnnhttp://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/nhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htmnnSee how I can provide numerous studies from reliable sources? Not just one link to an obviously phony article? You claim that in study after study, conservatives outperformed liberals in knowledge of science and government. No evidence, just something you pulled out of your ass. Is that why only 6 percent of scientists identify as Republican genius?nnhttp://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/section-4-scientists-politics-and-religion/nnIs that why conservatives believe in creationist garbage and not real science? Is that why the poorest states in America are all run by conservatives? I’m sorry your braindead ideology keeps people in poverty and is based on fear, and the fact you have lower IQs than liberals. But thats no excuse to make things up. We have a socialist government, and theres nothing you can do about it. By the way, Albert Einstein was a socialist. Guess thats another knock against your intelliegence. DUMMY!

          • Steve Walden

            Let me see if I can get this straight. My source (Harvard University) is a Right winger but cnn is perfectly down then middle. I don’t even need a study of any kind to prove how uninformed an unintelligent, liberals are. All I have to do is let you keep on posting and you prove my point perfectly. One prime example is your accretion that the Founding Fathers were liberal progressives. Clearly you do not understand the difference between Classic Liberalism (which is the political belief that most of the founding fathers espouse to) and Modern Liberalism / Progressivism, which is what is what libtard communist like you espouse to. I will let me Princeton University (by your standards, probably another right-winger) explain it to you: http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Classical_liberalism.htmlnI love your classic libtard response to facts (i.e. the quotes I provided from our founding fathers). When the facts disagree with a liberals reality, they just call the facts into question. So please Jill, by all means, continue to reply to this post, so the entire thread can see, first hand, how stupid you are, thereby proving my point, sans my Harvard “right-winger” study et al.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Your source CLAIMED he was quoting a Harvard study, but guess what? No links to sources dumb ass. LOL, how does it feel to know you are on the shallow end of the intellectual pool? You just fav the classic conservatard response which is to reject facts when they don’t suit your point of view. FAIL.

          • Steve Walden

            So you’re only comeback it to parrot my replies to you. I guess that makes sense, since you can’t seem to formulate a cogent argument on your own. Once you go look up the word “cogent” I assume you will reply.

          • Jake Azeris

            Steve, you’re such a retard, stop humiliating yourself. You have one source that claimed to summarize a Harvard study with no sources. Meanwhile, she gave you four sources and you just reject it. It’s not her fault your brain dead. And yes, Time Magazine and CNN are more reliable sources than your one obscure website shit for brains. I think it’s hilarious that you tried to say conservatives were smarter and the opposite was true, priceless! I also love your grade school web page giving us the definition of classical liberalism, you still in fifth grade? Stick to your loony conspiracy theories fatty, you brain can’t handle much more!

          • Steve Walden

            Jake, it’s clear that you can’t read. The “grade school” website that you are referring to, which gives the definition and description of Classic Liberalism, is a Princeton University site as I stated AND as the URL states. IT wasn’t my website. It was actually not even Princeton’s site, in that they were merely using the website to demonstrate an automatic document organizer and browser. If you’d care to do even a scintilla of research, you’d find the definition of Classic Liberal, which I offered, to be accurate. You can check with Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, et al and they will all give you the safe definition. It may be too much work for you though and certainly too much for your tiny little brain to comprehend. As for me being a fatty… Hum, let’s compare my life with yours. I served with Honor and distinction with the 5th Special Forces Group (AIRBORNE), I worked 12 years at Microsoft, I’m an accomplished pilot and musician. I’ve saved more lives than I can count, including the one I saved 2 years ago when I donated one of my kidneys. I’m 6’3″ tall and weigh 225 and can bench more that twice my body weight. I have multiple black belts and do triathlons just for fun. So tell me Jake, what have you done with your life? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Go read a book you dumb ass.

          • Jake Azeris

            Sorry, your response is just a blur, I didn’t find a single spot where you refuted the studies she posted, FATTY

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Oh wow, you made him really angry, now he has to list off phony accomplishments to build up his self worth LMFAO. Maybe you should have traded that kidney for a lobotomy twit.

          • Vic R

            There is little that you say that holds any credibility. Typical angry Obamanaught who follows the party line regardless of truth. How exactly have President Obama improved your quality of life and future prospects? I hazzard a guess that you are in the same position or worse than when he promised to fix everything then blamed the Bush Administration for his failures. Powerful guy that Bush huh? He can run the country two terms after his two terms and Obama is powerless against it. If Bush was such an idiot then how come your messiah couldn’t fix it all like he promised the Seas to part and the skies to rain money for all…and free cell phones…and more welfare… and more debt…and more free things from the hands of the working people….to you…

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Awwww, you mad bro? Are you butt hurt cause I criticized your messiah Bush? First of all, Obama never promised to fix everything Bush did wrong, or to provide free stuff. That’s what the conservative media said he would do. So right from the start, it’s apparent you’re a right wing zombie who gets their “news” from questionable sources. Do you realize that blue states subsidize red states with their tax dollars? Your side is composed of welfare queens, but because you live in a right wing bubble, you only hear things that confirm your own stereotypes. By the way, the most educated states in the country all voted for Obama in 2012, and the dumbest went to Romney. Carrot explain that? Can you explain how the wealthiest, most prosperous areas of the country always vote Democrat and the Republicans have the poorest, dumbest voters?

          • Vic R

            Again, not a single thing you’ve said is backed up by fact. Democrats increased welfare recipients in a way no other president has seen and not to RED states Jill. You scream back with insults but are unable to actually provide facts, just because you say it doesn’t make it fact. Give your proof and data from reliable sources, like you screamed at someone else about, or live with the fact that you are all hot air.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton
          • Vic R

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEjqRLjP7Io

            Here is a guy who knows a thing or two about being an American. He used to be on your side…and no longer and here is why…

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Sorry, I’m not swayed by arguments from authority. Didn’t watch your garbage video

          • Vic R

            How did you know it was garbage if you didn’t watch it. I think you would be surprised. It’s only an African American talking…but you are scared of them when they get a clue and realize how your party has kept them in poverty year after year.

            When they become republicans you call them Uncle Tom or our niggers…never once thinking they can have a real opinion that is important. D’s are only happy when the black man shuts up and votes for them.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Oh, so you like black people when they vote for you, typical conservatard. When they don’t, youre smearing them for being welfare recipients who do nothing but commit crime. There’s a reason most blacks and minorities aren’t in your party. Funny how you claim Democrats keep blacks in poverty when most of their population is in the red conservative South, home of Jim Crow and slavery.

          • Vic R

            And Jim Crow and Slavery were the ideas of the Democrats. Where you get your ideas that you claim to know what I think shows your utter ignorance. You assume but you actually know nothing. There is a reason they don’t vote Republican, that’s because you have kept them so deeply entrenched in benefits that kill their spirits. How far have blacks come under Democratic rule? No farther than before, in fact, the have done worse. FACT.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Is that why a majority of poor blacks live in red states? Slavery wasn’t invented by a political party dumb ass, it’s been around for thousands of years. And Jim Crow was implemented in CONSERVATIVE Southern states. Blacks don’t vote Republican because they know you just use them for votes and then treat them all like ignorant criminals. Not my fault your party is inherently racist.

          • Vic R

            How many jobs have you created Jill? How many government hand outs have you received? The video you refused to watch was one of your own, but a black man so not really one of your own, who was sick of the lies. But when black people speak up against your party you call them Uncle Toms or the right wing niggers for rent. I have heard it many times. Watch it, take a second and open your Budweiser filled brain and see your own people sick of the status quo…liberals promising year after year to help the black community…their arrogance only forces welfare on them which does nothing to encourage employment nor productivity,

            You fall apart every time you talk you expose your ignorance .

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Oh no, looks like I’m getting you really angry now. Why are you and the right so filled with rage? HAHAHAHA, I love driving morons nuts

          • Vic R

            How about answering the question…moron…you cannot because you cannot…because you have not struggle to start a company and employ people and keep them employed under the stresses and strains of a government that wants to keep you poor. You’re simply a recipient of welfare dollars I believe and government hand outs and that is why you lack the ability to answer any questions directly…instead you name call…the Socialist’s way of argument due to a lacking vocabulary and facts.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            HAHA, you’re such a conservatard cliche, just repeating talking points over and over again.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            More right wing talking points, you could be head of the RNC! Hate to burst your bubble, but the most welfare in this country goes to red states.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            And why would I be angry? You got whooped in two straight elections and are left to taking cheap shots at the president and we’re the angry ones? Haha, keep trying dumbo.

          • Vic R

            You talk about our country and election as if they were a football team..them against us. You don’t talk like an American you talk like someone that hates everything and everyone. WE didn’t get beat Jill…You and I and everyone else got beat last election. We have the highest debt of any president EVER…more debt accumulated with this president than all the other presidents put together. We have a “healthcare” system that will rival the costs of the most expensive systems in the world and end up putting people on hold for needed treatments, we have a military that is weaker than any other presidency, we have so many scandals and subsequent cover ups, we have more freedoms removed than ever before, more welfare recipients than ever before, the least secure border ever, immigration policy that basically welcomes all in to jump on the welfare wagon while you have to work for your money…granted on the street corner but it’s a job, we have more unemployed than ever due to Obamacare forcing people into part time work and not getting coverage anyway, we have a Middle east that has erupted into the most dangerous situation for our nation as a whole and now Ebola people being freely admitted into the US. This may be your Valhalla, but this President spends time on the golf course laughing away and campaigning more than any other president ever, You have a guy that has attended only 40% of his security meetings all as YOUR country goes to hell and you revel in the Victory?! You are a moron of the highest order and certainly no American.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Yes, you got beat, and I’m sorry you’re butthurt about it. This fight is about America vs. you conservative whackjobs. Prepare to get whipped in 2016 too, because your party has absolutely no ideas on how to improve this country. Republicans have done nothing but block legislation. It’s funny how you talk about spewing hot air and providing facts when you don’t even back up your lame assertions with facts. All those things you listed are talking points on Fox News and have been debunked. I revel in our victory over you and your parasitic conservatard buddies. Deal with it.

          • Chef Geo

            Wow such a rich life yet still a douche….

          • Vic R

            you should consider moving to a country more suitable to your ideals…like say…russia rather than transform our once great country into a socialist shit hole. I’ve been to most socialist countries in the world and can tell you they are drab, depressed countries ran by mostly dictators who steal from the poor and keep the poor poor so non one has the financial might to depose them. If you think your Messiah, BHO has made this country better, you’re smoking too much crack.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Wow, the old if you don’t agree with me, then you must be on crack argument. Very clever argument. Maybe those drab depressed countries you were in was actually the American South, which has been governed by conservatives since the founding of the country. You wanna see conservatism in practice? The South has the dumbest, fattest, most violent people in the country.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Russia? You mean the country that’s adopted a flat tax and has the most income inequality in the Western world? A country full of religious zealots and human rights violations? Sounds like a conservative utopia to me. And your conservative buddies have been praising Putin from ay one.

          • Dave Ivie

            Thanks Steve! I read Jill’s comment about the constitution giving the federal government expansive power and thought…oh no…nI appreciate your perspective and correct interpretation of the facts. nEinstein said that the definition of insanity was trying the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Einstein was being polite…that’s not really insanity, it’s stupidity. Socialism has failed time and time again, yet people still want to keep trying it. Not surprised about socialists scoring lowest on IQ tests! LOL – hilarious!

          • Jake Azeris

            Oh, here’s another dumbass. Wow, you quoted Einstein, I’m impressed. Did you know that he was a socialist? DUH. And if you actually researched anything, you would know that the Constitution provided for a strong federal government and that liberals have higher IQ’s than conservatives.

          • Robert Beckwith

            You’re so full of it! Thou art a arse!!!

          • Vic R

            None of what you just said makes any sense what so ever. Where exactly can I find this DATA you claim exists on IQs and who exactly told you that the Constitution was designed to create a ruling class government? Was Einstein’s best work based on socialism? I would live to hear more. In fact I think you spout this stuff due to social programming and not because you actually understand a thing about what you are saying.

          • Jake Azeris

            Are you shocked that Einstein would favor socialism over your failed capitalist system? THat’s because he was intelligent, a concept people like you sneer at. You’re better off with your dear leaders on Fox telling you what to think.

          • Vic R

            Again, you seem to be very at home in a fancy expensive speed boat made no doubt by the very capitalist pigs you spew your ignorant spittle all over.

          • Jake Azeris

            Dummy, this might surprise you, but boats have existed for THOUSANDS of years. Incredible, right? Inventions don’t come along due to an economic system twit, they come about through necessity.

          • Vic R

            Another example of your utterly small brain. Canoes came about due to necessity but speed boats did not…moron…Your fancy little boat took some serious investment to create and manufacture and it took a healthy economy to allow you to earn enough money to get it. Socialists would rather you not have such a luxury because it takes food off of the table of someone who doesn’t work so hard as you…

          • Robert Beckwith

            I can see you and others are not having much success in persuading a bunch of boneheads! They will always start calling names-that’s how you can tell they’re out of facts to argue with. I’m running out of energy trying to butt heads with ignorance. Good luck!

          • Sean

            Please stop witht he stupidity of the founders. They were all WHITE MEN. They are not perfect. This hero worship of people who did not allow women to vote and decided blacks were 3/5th of a person are not the be all end all to what is RIGHT. Of course it is only a moron who looks to the founders as the answer to everything They werent that special

          • Vic R

            And remember this…moron…DEMOCRATS Created slavery..DEMOCRATS Fought against freedom for black people while republicans fought to free slaves and end segregation. It’s all the same now only the Democrats are much smarter now at keeping the black folk and minorities down…it’s called welfare and minimum wage. You will never dig your way out of those fancy programs to keep you poor and dumb.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEjqRLjP7Io

            Here is a guy that tells it like it is…read your history before you spout off about the founding fathers!

          • Sean

            You don;t know history or understand how parties changed. The Republican party used to be liberal. They changed. Democrats used to be conservative but became liberal. You want proof f this? RonaldReagan was a democrat. More proof, Strom Thurmond was a democrat. They both changed as the partied switched roles over CIVIL RIGHTS. Old school racists democrats were not welcome in the party.
            The FOUNDING FATHERS created slavery and put 3/5th of a person int he constitution (no matter which party) You are too stupid to know history and too stupid to even learn basic information. Not surprising since republicans never trust science or facts. They prefer to make shit up.

          • Vic R

            So you are saying that Republicans WERE Democrats before they became Republicans and they were the same REPUBLICANS that were Democrats in the 1950’s and 60’s THEN the Democrats became Republicans and the Republicans the Democrats and that’s how this all went down. So Democrats did not fight legislation to end segregation and FDR didn’t didn’t say he would have all those N’ggrs voting Democrat for centuries with his new welfare plan? You are good at the name calling but not so good at your facts.

          • Vic R

            Do you see how your president has created haters out of your party? Everyone that disagrees is stupid, a moron, an idiot, something hateful and you…well you are the master race…of tolerance and diversity…apart from the diversity you don’t like and the non existent tolerance…Tolerate what suits your political will and call everyone else disgusting names…Bigots…all of you.

          • Vic R

            So let me get this straight…Republicans were all Democrats but became republicans so they could carry on with their racist tactics…So the Democrats didn’t fight against the abolition of Slavery. It was really republicans in the Party that did that…and the same in the Civil Rights Movement when Democrats and LBJ said ” I’ll have those niggers voting democrat for 200 years” was really a Republican but in the Democrat party and a Democrat President. So it was all Republicans that infiltrated the Democrat party and made them LOOK racist so that they would lose and then they all jumped ship back to the R side when they “got ‘em”? The founding fathers did NOT create slavery and certainly the Democrat party created dependance upon government and welfare programs designed to keep poor people poor. They knew the mind set of the poor. Give them a few more pennies in welfare, just enough to satisfy their needs and their urge to be great will be quashed.

          • Vic R

            Are you Black Sean?

          • Candace Zingg

            You are an idiot. What version of the Constitution are you reading? Would that be the ” Common Core” version. You want the ” Federal Gov” to teach us something???? Hahaha, as of the late 70% when the Feds scooped it up, test scores have been falling….. I have 3 kids, and I can assure you, they don’t learn near what my generation did….. You have Jr. Colleges teaching your adults how to read, and speak English. My mother and my grandparents all learned Latin by 8 th grade……So I could throw F bombs at you too, but I am more civilized than that….. The GOVT is EVIL and dumbing down America!!!

          • Robin Hood

            Only in your family, dear… PS- Latin is nice, but computers are today… Get a clue.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Wow, is that why all the best colleges are liberal? Test scores are falling because politicians who share your brain dead views are insisting we teach nonsense like creationism. People like YOU are the problem, not the education system. Now go watch your Common Core propaganda on Fox you retard.

          • lawdawg541

            Bwwaaahaha! Public schools are failing because they are being forced to teach creationism? That is the stupidest comment I have EVER read.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            No, that would be your previous comments

          • Steve Walden

            I would encourage you to watch the movie “waiting for superman,” it’s on Netflix. It breaks down all the issues with our school systems and gets to the root cause. You might find it interesting. Oh wait, you’ll just say that it’s another right winger. Of course you will have to ignore that the film revolves around Geoffrey Canada, a Black Social Activist and educator who is the President and CEO of the Harlem Children’s Zone and Chairman of the Children’s Defense Fund’s board of directors. I suppose that since I’ve already pretty much given away the fact that the Movie blows your whole theory out of the water, you probably won’t watch it. If you and your girlfriend ever adopt a child then you will learn just how bad the school system is.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Hahaha, so your evidence is a Netflix movie dumb ass? Hey, how do you feel that those two Vegas shooters were both right wingers, just like the asshole who shot up the Jewish center? And Timmy McVeigh. Whoops. See the kind of brain dead scum that leech to your ideology?

          • Steve Walden

            Firstly, I deplore any violence acted upon another human being, except in the case of self-defense. Secondly, your argument might actually hold merit, but only if you ignore the fact that vast majority of these types of incidents have been carried out by committed leftist. Here are just a few… nJarrod Loughner, you remember him right, he’s the nut case that killed several people and shot Congress Woman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, AZ. Yeah, he was a committed leftist (personally, I think all leftist should be committed).nFloyd Corkins who shot up the Conservative Family Research Center in August of 2012.nChris Dorner, the cop killing mass murder who, before he went on his killing spree, wrote a 22 page manifesto full of praise for leftist leaders. nNkosi Thandiwe who shot and killed a woman and injured 2 others because they were white. Nkosi Thandiwe says he wanted to kill white people after “learning to hate them in college.” He was an anthropology Major at The University of West Georgia.nFt. Hood – Maj Nidal Hasan – Muslim and committed leftistnColumbine – Too young to vote but both households were registered Democrats and progressive liberals.nVA Tech – Wrote hate mail to President Bush and his staff and was a registered Democrat nColorado Theater Shooter – Registered Democrat, Staff worker in Obama campaign, Occupy Wall Street participant, progressive liberalnConnecticut School Shooter- Registered Democrat – Hated ChristiansnAdolf Hitler – Killed millions of Homosexuals, Christians and Jews – Leader of the National SOCIALIST Party.nThen there’s Stalin, Mau, Che Guevara, Chaves, the list of far left murderous monsters goes ON AND ON.nHave people on the right committed heinous acts? YES of course they have because evil does not belong to any one political party. Having said that however, any ideology that seeks to take, at the point of a gun, the fruits of someone else labor, in order to give it to whom THEY choose, is, at its core, EVIL.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            LOL, nice try, Jared Loughner had no political affiliation dumb ass. What evidence do you have that he was a leftist? He shot a DEMOCRAT dipshit! Oh, and all the others you listed have no weight either, it was bullshit made up in a chain email by Roger Hedgecock, a right wing radio host. Which is why you provide absolutely NO evidence to back up your claims. The Nazis were not socialist, they included that in their name to gain popularity for their movement. Nazism is a right wing ideology, which is why they killed homosexuals and other races, which you actually admitted to. Stalin was planning to become a priest in his early years, he was a conservative, as were Mao and Pol Pot. nConservatism is a primitive ideology based on FEAR, which is why people like you have lower IQs than liberals and why nuts on your side commit mass killings. You are easily manipulated by propaganda, so you can’t distinguish that from reality.

          • Dave Ivie

            NAZIs were not socialist? Nazism is a right wing ideology Jill? NAZI actually stands for the National German Socialist Workers party. They were fascists. The only people who referred to fascism as a right wing ideology were the Russian communists – as communism is just about the only thing to the left of fascism. You are a freaking lunatic to consider Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot conservative. Of course, based on all of your other comments on here, it is clear you are too far gone for reason.

          • lawdawg541

            Isn’t it funny when liberal’s try to create their own “facts.” And then when you call them out, like Dave just did, ……crickets.

          • Poor Woody

            Isn’t it funny, when a con / teahadist tw@matthaskins:disqus cannot pluralize, but claims intellect. Aren’t you the “man” who libeled ???

          • lawdawg541

            Aren’t you Pat Costello, the dude with multiple monikers, who “likes” his own comments? You are such a freaking retard it’s hard to believe…

          • Dumb Dog

            Big crickets….

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Or it means they actually have a life and job and therefore cant spend all day refuting retards. Like the previous man said, you should stick to your coffee and guns, your mind cant handle much more

          • Nazi – Capitalist

            Yes. NSDAP. National Socialist German Worker’s Party. It was NOT a
            socialist party, which Hitler made very clear. It was a right wing
            reactionary group. opposed to Jews (“speculative capitalists”),
            socialism (“social democrats”) and all left wing movements, to include

            “Jew Bolshevism” (other socialists) and “Marxists” (other communist movements, to include for example, the Spartacists).

            You are dead wrong, as Hitler makes very clear and Heydrich and Goebbels
            made even more lucid. “We are of the right, of order, and of the
            corporations who support the state”, said Himmler. And it goes on and
            on.

            NO Aryan-owned corporation in Germany ca.1933-’45 was ever expropriated
            or nationalized, no agriculture was collectivized, and the remaining
            “delusional leftists” (Goering’s words) were disposed of during the
            “Night of the Long Knives”. See Shirer in THE RISE AND FALL OF THE
            THIRD REICH, wherein the hundreds of big companies who donated money to
            the NSDAP are enumerated.

            This strangely naive presumption that the word “socialist” had a left
            wing meaning is so ridiculous that scholars like Shirer, Bullock,
            Toland, Batchelor, Weeks, and ALL THE OTHERS specifically deal with the
            early days of the party and the “marketing ploy” which underpins the
            inclusion of the word in the title in considerable detail.

            “Socialismus” had a uniquely Hitlerish meaning, much like his concept
            of “peace” and “justice”. The “Z” is contractive, from the most
            important word, in English, “National”, because they were a reactionary,
            right wing, militaristic, and nationalistic outfit. “Nazi” is
            phonetic abbreviation, basically, and “Aryan” is no part of the party’s
            title.

            The “A” is for “Arbeit”, the German word for “work” (“Arbeiter” or
            “worker” is the working pronoun) or “labor”(possessive: laborer’s) , in
            context it means “worker’s”. You need to read some actual
            scholarship, you are again WRONG.

            Obama is NOTHING TO DO with them, and NO MINORITY member could EVER be a
            Nazi. The note above about Barney Frank, ironic as it is, is
            absolutely on the right path.

            Reading MEIN KAMPF–which isn’t easy, because it’s one of the worst books ever to reach publication–makes this all very lucid.

            But of course, you haven’t read that. And I doubt you ever will.

            By the way, Germany’s National Public Health Program was created by the
            right wing Bismarck Government in 1871, 18 years before Hitler was BORN.
            So your information on the medical setup is not only WRONG, but
            fraudulent.

            If you read the history, you’ll realize the Nazis briefly discussed
            backing off that program to “prove their capitalist intentions”, but
            among others, Hess advised that would be “political suicide”, especially
            on the brink of the biggest war of all time.

            Your history background leaves much to be desired. Consult Toland, and you’ll know how foolish your fallacies really are.

            IF NOT, why did Krupp/von Bohlen wind up a primary defendant at Nuremberg? Reason: their HUGE financial role in support of the

            Third Reich. And they were HARDLY a socialist endeavor!

            Nor were the other 200 huge corporations who gave the Nazis money,

          • lawdawg541

            Nice copy and paste from https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090912220247AAIAsXT. You freaking loser!

          • Dave Ivie

            Did you even bother to read what you “wrote?” Of course not! Try thinking for yourself, loser, and quit relying on leveraging the work of others, no matter how misguided it is. As I stated, the Nazis were fascists. And as much as you might like to copy another’s body of work to show how fascism is completely different than socialism…when you truly understand them, you’ll see they have plenty in common.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            If you ever read a book, you would see how much you have in common with your pal Hitler you delusional shit for brains

          • Sean

            You really should just be quiet To say fascism is a kind of socialism means you don’t’ know what either are. It is impossible to have a conversation about things when you don’t know what the words mean. THAT is why people don’t respond. If you dnt understand the words it is impossible to teach make you understand reality

          • David Nelson

            Hey Steve, you half wit, most mass murderers are right wing. All you conservatives should be committed or put down. Any ideology like yours, which preaches ignorance and hate, is inherently EVIL. And, unlike you, I have real proof:nnApril 17, 2012nJoseph Benjamin Thomas and Samuel James Johnson of Mendota Heights, Minn., are indicted on federal weapons and drug charges after a probe of their alleged plans to create an u201cAryan Liberation Movementu201d and attack minorities, leftists and government officials. Prosecutors say Thomas planned to attack the Mexican consulate in St. Paul with a truck loaded with flaming barrels of oil and gasoline. Johnson, a former leader of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement with prior convictions for armed crimes, was scouting for a training compound in Illinois or Minnesota and seeking to recruit others into his group, court papers say. In the end, Johnson pleads guilty in 2012 to being a felon in possession of weapons and is sentenced to 15 years in prison. Thomas pleads to intent to distribute 50 grams of methamphetamine. In April 2013, he is sentenced to 10 years in prison.nnJune 17, 2012nAnson Chi, 33, is seriously injured when he detonates a bomb in an effort to destroy an Atmos Energy natural gas pipeline in Plano, Texas. Chi is an avid tax protester who has posted numerous videos, statements and rants on the Internet about the alleged evils of the Federal Reserve, the IRS, President Obama and the government. He had been a fugitive since 2009, when he violated probation in California on a weapons charge. Chi pleads guilty in 2013 to possessing an unregistered explosive and malicious use of an explosive, and is sentenced to 22 years in prison.nnAugust 5, 2012nNeo-Nazi skinhead Wade Michael Page, 40, opens fire with a 9 mm handgun at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis., killing six and critically wounding three, including a police officer. Wounded by police, Page then shoots and kills himself at the scene. A U.S. Army veteran who was discharged in 1998 for u201cpatterns of misconduct,u201d Page was a u201cpatchedu201d member of the Northern Hammerskins, a chapter of the Hammerskin Nation, a violent, racist skinhead group. He was also a fixture on the white power music scene who played in the band End Apathy and several others.nnAugust 16, 2012nSeven people with ties to the antigovernment u201csovereign citizensu201d movement allegedly ambush and murder Louisiana sheriffu2019s deputies Brandon Nielsen, 34, and Jeremy Triche, 27. The attack comes in a trailer park near New Orleans, where the deputies pursued suspects following the shooting and wounding of another deputy working as an off-duty security guard at an oil refinery. Those arrested include the groupu2019s leader, Terry Lyn Smith, 44, Smithu2019s wife, Chanel Skains, and his sons, Derrik Smith and Brian Smith. Others are Brittany Keith, Kyle David Joekel and Teniecha Bright. Brian Smith is charged with first-degree murder and the others with related charges. The group, which traveled the country doing construction work, possess a stockpile of weapons. Its members have outstanding warrants in Nebraska, Tennessee and Louisiana.nnSeptember 4, 2012nChristopher Lacy, 36, shoots California Highway Patrol officer Kenyon Youngstrom at close range after the officer stops Lacyu2019s vehicle, which had an obstructed license plate, on I-680 near Alamo. Lacy is fatally shot by another trooper, and Youngstrom dies the next day. An investigation into Lacyu2019s background reveals a large amount of antigovernment u201csovereign citizensu201d literature on several computers at his home.nnDecember 21, 2012nFBI agents arrest Richard Schmidt, the owner of a sporting goods store in Bowling Green, Ohio, for trafficking in counterfeit goods and discover a cache of 18 weapons in his home and store, including AR-15 assault rifles, 9 mm and Sig Sauer pistols and shotguns, and more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition. Schmidt is unable to own the weapons legally because he is a felon who served 13 years for murdering a Latino man and wounding two others in a 1989 traffic dispute. Officials also find evidence of Schmidtu2019s neo-Nazi views, including video and Nazi paraphernalia, and the Anti-Defamation League identifies him as a longtime member of the neo-Nazi National Alliance. Authorities also discover a notebook they say Schmidt was using to track Detroit-area Jewish and African-American leaders, apparently as a prelude to some kind of attack. Schmidt is indicted in Toledo in January 2013 on three federal counts of possessing illegal firearms, body armor and ammunition, and one count of trafficking in counterfeit goods. He pleads guilty in July 2013 to violating federal firearms laws and is sentenced in December to nearly six years in prison.nnJune 18, 2013nGlendon Scott Crawford, 49, and Eric J. Feight, 54, are arrested in upstate New York after a yearlong investigation and charged with conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists for use of a weapon of mass destruction. Crawford is a member of the United Northern and Southern Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and an industrial mechanic with General Electric; Feight is an outside contractor for GE with engineering skills. Officials say the two men, who call themselves u201cThe Guild,u201d are well along the way toward building a truck-borne radiation weapon could be turned on remotely and that they hoped to use in the mass murder of Muslims and others. Crawford, who was said to be angry at President Obama, allegedly referred to the device as u201cHiroshima on a light switch.u201d The men are arrested after unsuccessfully seeking funding from Jewish groups and the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In January 2014, Crawford is indicted for conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction and related charges, while his alleged accomplice is reportedly in talks about a plea agreement that would involve testifying against Crawford.nnAug. 18, 2013nDavid Allen Brutsche, 42, and a woman described as Brutscheu2019s roommate, Devon Campbell Newman, 67, are arrested in Las Vegas after a months-long investigation into an alleged plot to kidnap and execute police officers. Both Brutsche, a convicted felon and registered sex offender, and Newman consider themselves u201csovereign citizensu201d and have conducted recruiting seminars on sovereign ideology, officials say. Authorities say they intended to kidnap a police officer at random, detain the officer in a crude jail in a vacant house, u201ctryu201d the officer in a u201ccommon-lawu201d court, then execute the officer. The two are charged with felony conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and attempted kidnapping. Newman pleads guilty in December 2013 to conspiracy to commit false imprisonment, a misdemeanor, and is sentenced to a year of probation and ordered to have no contact with Brutsche. Brutsche, who renounces sovereign citizen ideology during court proceedings, pleads guilty in February 2014 to conspiracy to kidnap police officers and receives five yearsu2019 probation. In a separate case involving failure to register as a sex offender, he receives 188 days in jail in addition to time served.nnMarch 27, 2014nRobert James Talbot Jr., 38, is arrested in Katy, Texas, by FBI agents who say he was about to rob an armored car. He is alleged to have been plotting to use C-4 explosives and weapons to rob banks and armored cars, blow up government buildings and mosques, and kill police officers. Prosecutors say he is behind a Facebook page called u201cAmerican Insurgent Movement,u201d on which he posted antigovernment screeds, called for violence against public officials, and ranted about Muslims and LGBT people. He used the page to attempt to persuade others to join his cause. Talbot faces federal charges of attempted interference with commerce by robbery, solicitation to commit a crime of violence and possession of an explosive material. The FBI opened an investigation into his activities in August 2013 after learning of his alleged desire to recruit others into terrorist activities.nnApril 13, 2014nFrazier Glenn Miller (aka Frazier Glenn Cross), 73, a longtime racist and anti-Semite, is arrested after a gunman opens fire at a Jewish community center and a Jewish retirement community in Overland Park, Kansas, a suburb of Kansas City. Three people are killed, including a 14-year-old Eagle Scout and his grandfather. Miller, a retired Army veteran and Green Beret, is the founder and former leader of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the White Patriot Party, which he ran as paramilitary organizations in the 1980s. He was successfully sued by the SPLC for operating an illegal paramilitary organization and for using intimidation tactics against African Americans. Miller went underground in 1987 after he violated the court settlement and was convicted on criminal contempt charges. He was caught and served three years in federal prison on weapons charges in connection with plans to commit robberies and assassinate SPLC founder Morris Dees. As part of a plea deal, he testified against other Klan members in a 1988 sedition trial.nnJune 8, 2014nJerad Miller, 31, and his wife, Amanda, 22, enter Ciciu2019s Pizza in Las Vegas, Nev., where two police officers are eating lunch. Jerad Miller fatally shoots officer Igor Soldo, 31. As his partner, Alyn Beck, 41, tries to react, Miller shoots him in the throat, then both Millers shoot Beck several times. The pair leave a swastika and a Gadsden flag on Becku2019s body. The yellow flag, a symbol used by the antigovernment u201cPatriotu201d movement, features a coiled snake with the words u201cDonu2019t Tread On Me.u201d On Soldou2019s body, they place a note: u201cThis is the start of the revolution.u201d The couple leave the restaurant and walk to a nearby Walmart store, where Amanda Miller shoots and kills Joseph Wilcox, 31, before the husband-wife team barricade themselves in the back of the store. Both Millers are killed. Jerad is apparently shot by police, and Amanda apparently kills herself. The couple held antigovernment views. Jerad Miller cited calls to impeach President Obama on his Facebook page as well as statements about dying for liberty and about Patriot conspiracy theories. The duo perceived law enforcement as u201coppressorsu201d and reportedly told neighbors they planned to kill police officers.nnSounds like more than just a few bad apples DUMB ASS!!! Thats just thelast couple years. I couldnt list them all, it would have overloaded the system.

          • Andrew Wood

            Only a moron would equate these losers with conservatives.

          • Kassie Langston

            Steve is a perfect example of what happens when the conservative mind meets facts and reality, it literally explodes! I love how this lame brain randomly lists off a bunch of mass shooters over the past couple years and claims they’re “liberals” with absolutely no other evidence or details. Good job David, there are even more examples of right wing hate crimes that would blow this idiot out of the water. Steve, you are a braindead tool who has no knowledge of how the real world works or the Constitution you claim to love so much. Go crawl back under your rock and let the intelligent people run this country.

          • Jake Azeris

            My favorite part was when he capitalized SOCIALISM, because you know, since it was in their name, they must have been socialists! Fucking dumb ass, no knowledge of history whatsoever, this is the pinnacle of intelligence shown by conservatives.

          • Dave Ivie

            The best colleges are liberal? Care to expand on how an entire university, made up of individuals, is somehow collectively political?

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Yeah, they are dumbass, even people in your own party say so.

          • Sean

            “My mother and my grandparents all learned Latin by 8 th grade.”
            And how did your mother and grandmother do with a computer? Did they know the difference between RAM or ROM? DO YOU? D they know what the cloud is? I bet most 8th graders are FAR smarter than you when it comes to technology. Tell me what will be more important to the world, knowing a dead language or knowing the inner workings of a computer?
            That in a nutshell gives us the difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals want to live in the present with an eye toward the FUTURE, and conservatives live in the past.
            Oh and just because your kids are too stupid to learn what your generation did, does not mean others have not. I would say that is a parental issue. Either that or they are genetically predisposed to being stupid

          • Steve Morandi

            Ignorant sheep

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Lobotomized retard

          • Ambersol09 .

            You lose all credibility when you try to make your point using epithets in place of other words that might actually take a few minutes of thought to come up with. And why would a woman use such a denigrating word as you used in your last (partial) sentence? Time to get your GED Ms. Edgerton, so you can get a real job.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Ahh, new retard joining the fray, is that the best you can do? “Get a GED” What are you, five years old?

          • Ambersol09 .

            Thanks for reinforcing my point.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Thanks for revealing your two digit IQ.

          • lawdawg541

            Haha, class act liberal right there. With braindead people like Jill, it’s no wonder our country is in such a mess.

          • Robin Hood

            Commenting on a month old comment ??

            WOW !

            No LIFE, huh ??

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA !

          • lawdawg541

            That’s when I get up to run. You should try it lard ass, or better yet, grab another jelly doughnut…

          • Robin Hood

            Long “run” to the computer keyboard ???

            HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAH !!!

            If you “get up to run”, why are there so many moronic posts here ??? I get it, you’re running in place, right ??

            HAHHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH !

            Man, you really need to find better “stories”, gramps….

            HAHHHAHHHHAHA ! Tell me about your filter “business” !!? Do you have a filter to wipe out moronic posts ?? Not working, pal !!!

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            HAHAHA, he gets up to run! You should do that more often, the musty smell in your mothers basement is obviously affecting your brain. Lots of luck loser!

          • Andrew Wood

            From the girl who’s face looks like it was run over. Multiple times. By elephants.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            You must be out of arguments now, I can tell when conservatives run out of talking points because they switch to personal attacks. Why don’t we line up a picture of you and I and see who gets the most clicks?

          • Andrew Wood

            Well, I don’t advertise my wares on Backpage, so yes, you would probably win…

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Thanks!

          • Vic R

            Please share what this “real Science” is to which you espouse oh wise one Jill? When you have no argument, start swearing at people. If you do have an argument with any validity then state it clearly. I guess you are unable but listening anyway. I do not want a ruler to run my life. I have a brain and can make up my own mind what’s good for me and my family. You want to have a ruler…go live in Moscow. What is your definition of the Socialist Valhalla in which you’d like to live Jill Edgerton?

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Oh you don’t want a ruler? Cause your buddies on the right wing cant stop praising Putin for how “bad” he is. Russia has also adopted your braindead economic plan, a flat tax , and their country is filled with religious nutjobs. Why don’t you move to Moscow?

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            You don’t want a ruler to run your life? Because all your right wing friends are praising Putin. And Russia has adopted all the right wing policies: a flat tax, anti gay rhetoric, religious nutjobs. You would actually feel right at home in Moscow.

          • Scott Pietruszka

            Um…you dumb ass dim whit. The Constitution has many things in it that are Communist and others that Socialist without being Communist. While all communism is socialistic not all Socialism is communism. Either way here is a list of socialist or communist items in the constitution.
            1. The First Amendment
            2. The 2nd Amendment
            3. The 3rd Amendment
            4. The 4th Amendment
            5.. who the hell am i kidding… nearly every Amendment is. Every one of the Amendments are of a socialist or communist idea except those that limit terms of service (which forever shifted the balance of power into the hands of Congress) or those that transfer power to smaller groups. Why do you think Marx referenced it so much in the Manifest of the Communist Party? He saw the Constitution. He loved it but pointed out that innate human nature of greed would forever be at odds with preserving those promises of the Constitution and suugested the Government regulate certain freedoms to prevent those with the most capital from gaining power over the majority of the people through wages and political monetary gifts to sway votes.

          • Scott Pietruszka

            Edited the above. It is now correct.

          • Scott Pietruszka

            Now as for the 10th Amendment… this was granted so that people in different states could govern in opposition to each other so that they could protect and declare their own rates of commerce in national interstate trade. The industrial revolution and laws created to support capitalism provided a new set of conditions that began to resemble those very aspects of a feudal-lord system we fought so hard against to gain our freedom. Communism says there must be a true balance between capitalism and socialism.

          • Lyle Rich

            no we weren’t, the US has always been middle pack since those tests have started..

          • remainderman

            You obviously have no idea what the word socialism is and what it denotes. All those things you mention are part of a capitalist society. They are called services. They have been implemented in this country before socialism was in vogue. Socialism is the purposed redistribution of wealth. Take from the earners and give to the non-earners. The only institutions in your list that qualify are public education and public housing. (Both are disasters. BTW I see you didn’t put the VA hospital system on your list). nWhy would any free thinking, intelligent person find socialism repulsive? Simply because it is the antithesis of freedom. The more major institutions are socialized, the more they put other elitist socialists in control, and the less freedoms we have. Go read the Federalist Papers and see what out founders intended. Then ask yourself, do you want to put a bunch of politicians in charge of every aspect of your life? It’s great, I suppose, when you agree with them, but what happens when you don’t? Too late, you’ve abdicated your freedom for socialism.

          • lolwut

            Actually we can’t even be classified as a capitalist society. That denotes some form of free market and common worker economic mobility, which America is pretty far behind in for a first world country. nnAnd yes, all the things he listed are considered socialistic programs by definition. Anything that is taxpayer funded and government controlled is socialist.

          • LlarryLLama

            we are now subjects of crony capitalism, in other words, a market that is only as free as the government and it’s crony elitists behind the scenes allow it to be.

          • Finn

            And all the Europeans just face-palmed at your definition of socialism. All of those services are socialism. nnnIn Denmark, one cannot even claim benefits from the government unless he is training for a job, or established a history of working and paying his taxes.nnnThe word you are looking for, the sense of entitlement as seen in United Kingdom would be “welfare society”, not socialism.

          • remainderman

            Fair enough for Denmark and the UK, but I’m more worried about the US. Unlike many homogeneous countries in Europe who like to live in a society where you work and then give up large amounts of money to the government so the government can ineffectively give you things you can better buy for yourself, nnnThe US is built on freedom. Not just the right to vote, but the right to live our lives as we see fit. It we want to be poor, the so be it. If we want to be rich, then so be it. The negative connotations of the word socialism here is where the government uses confiscatory tax schemes and over-bearing regulation to transfer wealth away from the hard-workers and high earners. nnnThis is why OUR current government does not care about whether people work or have a history of working before they are given benefits. The democrat party in our country doesn’t want them to work. They want the completely dependent on them, thus they need more taxes from us and increase their voting block at the same time. Looking at American politics in any other manner is to miss what an American socialist is.

          • Robin Hood

            So, you’re defining the Waltons as hard-workers and high earners, huh ?nnnWhen you teach college students…………………………are they better piano players afterwards ??

          • Jeffrey9167

            You sound like a communist.

          • Robin Hood

            You write like a birther cuckoo.

          • Jeffrey9167

            I am.

          • Robin Hood

            Lots of you idiots hear voices & get alien probed…. REPEATEDLY !

          • Jeffrey9167

            So, how is Obama workering out for you?

          • Robin Hood

            Stock market recovered, employment improving & Obamacares for everyone….nnnnnPEACHY !

          • IndyfromAZ

            So that’s why the economy shrank by 1% in first quarter–Because it’s getting better! :) And you can’t have your doctor but you can have up 400% increase in your medical expenses. Everything is just peachy! (and now you’re electric bills will be going up thanks to the EPA). REJOICE!

          • Robin Hood

            Sorry, were we writing about the first quarter, huh ??? Obama’s a one quarter president ?nnBagger news, huh ? Severely redacted to present BS biases ?nnThe U.S. economy shrank in the first quarter for the first time in threen years as businesses increased inventories more slowly than initially nbelieved, and bad weather hampered activity.

          • IndyfromAZ

            I love childish liberals…They make great comedians. Bad weather is now? Gee, that’s one hell of a storm to last for 5 1/2 years!

          • Robin Hood

            Yeah, I saw you had nothing & figured a low IQ type would blather.nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnu2022nnnnnnnnReplynnu2022nnnnnnnnShare u203a

          • Sabalom Glitz

            So that’s why you blather so much. Good to know.

          • Robin Hood

            So(comma)…. Low IQ types are so EZ !

          • Sabalom Glitz

            And crushing the top squeezes the middle. :) I guess you’ll just have to ketchup on your pickle…:)

          • Robin Hood

            Crushing what top ? Are you on “something” or simply moronic ?

          • Sabalom Glitz

            Well, you’re on Liberalism, which is moronic so I’ll simplify it for you. You used the old hoary about a rising tide floats all boats which is liberal for steal the money from producers and give it to non-producers. Then when you raise the bottom and crush the top at the same time you squeeze the middle (middle class that is). Simple physics dear boy, not very hard to understand. Except for a liberal, that is. :)

          • Robin Hood

            Actually, we’re helping folks at the bottom with more pay. Try to keep up, dear. Perhaps, an adjustment to your meds ?

          • IndyfromAZ

            Wow! Thanks for the class warfare sputum. I didn’t think you’d grasp basic economics,being a liberal and all…

          • Robin Hood

            WOW !nnnName calling as intelligent points, what next a tantrum ??nnnLMA)O !

          • IndyfromAZ

            Whilen support for minimum wage might come from a good intention, it is nmisguided. If it seems too easy to reduce poverty simply by promulgatingn wage regulations, it probably is. Like Newtonu2019s Third Law of Motion, nactions in economic policy have reactions as well. Raising the cost of nlabor does not come without a tradeoff.nntRaising the minimum wage will reduce the number of minimum wage n(low-skill) jobs available. Basic arithmetic tells us this. If a companyn can afford to employ 3 workers at $7.00 per hour, the same company willn be able to employ only 2 workers (technically 2.1 workers) at $10.00 nper hour without increasing labor costs.nntLiberal economists have attempted to blur the effect of minimum wage onn employment, and sometimes minimum wage studies are flawed or ninconclusive. But a comprehensive survey ofn minimum wage studies shows that among papers with u201cthe most credible nevidence, almost all point to negative employment effects.u201dnntA recent projection from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) confirms this. The CBO projected that the proposed minimum wage increase up to $10.10 per hour would u201creduce total employment by about 500,000 workers.u201dnntLimiting the number of minimum-wage (that is, entry-level) jobs navailable is not helpful to low-skilled workers who could be priced out nof the labor market with a higher price floor. – See more at: http://www.iwf.org/news/2793811/Minimum-Wage-Increase-Hurts-Workers#sthash.ZCC7rauA.dpuf

          • Robin Hood

            Companies have made record profits & are overpaying management… nnnnToo bad, your facts don’t match reality, huh ??nnnnnLMAO !

          • Robin Hood

            The CBO projected that the proposed minimum wage increase up to $10.10 nper hour would u201creduce total employment by about 500,000 workers.u201dnnXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXnn”As with any such estimates, however, the actual losses could be nsmaller or larger…… “nnnXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXnnnLMAO ! Love the properly quoting the article to ‘prove” your biases….nnnnnnnLMAO !

          • Brian

            So, you think raising the wage fixes everything? Let’s look at that. nIt’s not just the restaurant servers who’s wages increase, it’s everyone up the food chain. This will force increased costs as business’s struggle to pay for the increased wages. Many will be forced to cut back on employees, automate where possible, and increase costs to the consumers.nFor those in minimum wage jobs, assistance programs are a necessary fact of life. Increased wages will make many either ineligible for that assistance, or force severe cutbacks in their benefits. Along with that, their tax bill will go up, as the IRS wants their cut. For many who previously didn’t have to file, now they will. Programs like housing assistance, food stamps, WIC, the Earned Income Tax Credit, and others, will no longer be available, and the increase in wages will not compensate for that loss.nOk, let’s talk about restaurant workers. Front line employees like bartenders and wait staff, if they’re good, can make much much more than $15/hr in tips alone. Are you assuming the tips will stay the same? Looking at it from a consumer’s point of view, I’m thinking I’ll stop tipping, as I no longer view tipping as part of a server’s wage. I don’t tip the mailman, the cop on the corner, or the guy in the gas station, so why tip a waiter, he’s getting a living wage now? Tipping will become something many will do ONLY when they receive exceptional service. Doesn’t matter if my reasoning is valid or not, that’s the perception I believe will prevail, and the action I expect to become widespread. nBenefits: As many business’s are forced to economize to stay afloat, freebies and benefits will go away. Free meals, not anymore. Free parking, nope. Paid vacations, thing of the past. Extended time off and leave of absences, don’t expect your job to be there when you get back. Company Christmas parties and employee barbecues, yeah, can’t afford those anymore either. nCan’t forget to talk about those people already making $15 or more per hour. Is it fair to pay the busboy the same that you make as a bartender after years of working your way up the ladder? Is the $16/hr worker gonna get a $7/hr raise too? If I’m already making $15/hr doing skilled labor, why would I stay at that wage when I can flip burgers or ask if you want fries for the same? Point being, everyone already near that $15 rate are gonna want a raise too. If my $20/hr job is raised to $30/hr, now the $30/hr workers are gonna want their raises, on up the ladder. You have to take that into consideration.nWhen you look closely, the consumer doesn’t benefit, the workers don’t really benefit, the businesses really don’t benefit…so, who does?nThe government, that’s who. If wages go up, taxes go up. If prices go up, tax on those goods go up. If benefits go down, the government can use those savings for other things. nIf consumers can’t afford the increased prices, they’ll stop going to those business’s. Employees will have to be laid off. Business’s will close their doors. Brick and mortar businesses will go the way of the dinosaurs. Eventually, only after the business’s close, the employees are laid off, and tax revenues dry up, will the government realize that the basic laws of supply and demand can’t be overruled and changed by government mandate.

          • Robin Hood

            You told me what my position will be ?? No thanks, games are for children.nnA better wage allows folks to survive without the government help & cuts back on duplication of effort & hoping for spotty benefits.nnBeen a minimum wage, before you were a smear on the toilet seat, son.

          • Brian

            I’ve been watching your postings for a while. All you do is go out, make unfounded, and sometimes nonsensical statements, while deriding anyone who makes a point you don’t agree with. That’s your right. But, it’s also a dick thing to do. You don’t seem to want to debate, or make informed rebuttals, just snipe from the sidelines. So, if my point of view is so flawed, please please point out WHERE I’m wrong. Point out HOW my assessments of increased costs impacting society and that “living wage” you espouse, is wrong. What good is $2/hr more after taxes if everything you need to buy doubles in price? Oh that’s right, you’re not into backing up your statements with fact.nThe FACT is, you’re just a loudmouth jacka$$ who thinks old age, and repeated lies, makes what you say true. Oh, and take your “smears on the toilet seat” and shove em up your ….

          • Robin Hood

            Kooky, little brian, with a begger mammy is a bad azz on the web!nnnLMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            Read his posts. Non stop blathering and bitterness. It’s obvious he spends a large amount of his time on here whining because of a sad little life.

          • Robin Hood

            Love irony, with my morning coffee, “man”.nnnnnLMAO !nnnSo, your “premise” is losers post here, right ??nnnnnPRECIOUS ! Is this your cry for “HELP”, because you could use some, son.nnLove “bearing false witless”…nnnLMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            I have spent less than an hour here and made maybe 40 posts. You? Days and 6100+ posts. 6100 + days= LOSER

          • Robin Hood

            See, in RE-AL-I-TY, the actual measure of a loser is losing…. Kinda like you’ve been doing, doorknob.nnYou’re welcome !!!nnOf course, you could display HON-IS-TY & tell every poster with more posts, they’re losers based on your little bYtch rules….nnButt, that would be equally weak to telling me…nnLMAO ! Tell your gal, she could DEFINITLY do better & describe me to her.nnLMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            I think I just confirmed I am arguing with a 12 year old…

          • Robin Hood

            Is the 12 year old winning, because I figured you’d be evenly matched.nnnnnWatch out for the “youth” factor, fathead.

          • lawdawg541

            I’d have better luck watching for your name in the news. After all it appears it is always the lunatic liberal’s who are the freaks in these mass shootings. Looking at your posts, it is easy to imagine a bitter little Tinkerbell like PAT COSTELLO going on a shooting spree.

          • Robin Hood

            Chris Kyle was an “instructor” wasn’t he ????nnnLive by the gun, die by the gun, son. I see we’re off size, at least one of US is off…nnnDumb, cheap, broke, & a short joke…nnnnnnLMAO !nnnnn ….

          • Robin Hood

            LostWeinerDog-a keyboard warrior and likely a skinny little runt.

          • lawdawg541

            “LostWeinerDog”, seriously? C’mon man, usually your posts are a little witty. I do get a kick out of the skinny runt comment, at 6’2″ 215 lbs, I don’t get called that very often. But you go girl!

          • Robin Hood

            Andy is so short his hair smell like feet. He’s so short he can sit on a piece of toilet paper and dangle his feet. nnWhen you die, I’d like to go to your funeral but I’ll probably have to go to work that day. I believe in business before pleasure.

          • lawdawg541

            Stick to whining and sarcasm Twinkletoes, seriously, my 12 year old tells funnier jokes. Of course, full grown men who sit on Santa’s lap probably would find those funny.

          • Robin Hood

            How would you know about full grown men ??nnnnnJust curious ? LMAOROTFF !! Of course, your kid knows “jokes”, she see you !!!nnnnnnAs for your kid, give her my sympathy, inbreeding is NO JOKE !!!nnnnnCut the webbed toes & fingers early, so the normals don’t notice & GOOD LUCK, schmuck !!!

          • lawdawg541

            At least I CAN reproduce Patrick Costello, you butt pirate. Or do you go by “Patty?” Hehe…

          • Robin Hood

            Hey son…. What you & your dog do in the privacy of his pen are none of my business…nnnnnLMAO !nnnnnLet me know if you ever have a kid, I’ll send a condolence fruit basket fulla dog biscuits…nnnnnLMAO !nnSo, Andy (can’t get) Wood… how do you reproduce, again ?? All I see is your gay fantasies….

          • Robin Hood

            When you tasted my sperm, did you think it wasn’t viable ???nnnYou DO realize, your opinion of a stranger’s potency is odd, right ???

          • lawdawg541

            We’ll, unless there has been a medical breakthrough and butt-babies are now possible, we don’t have to worry about any Pat Costello Jr’s wandering about.

          • Sick as a dog

            Duchess…. you need a head transplant on both ends.

          • Robin Hood

            We’ll, unless there has been a medical breakthrough and butt-babies are nnow possible, we don’t have to worry about any Andy Wood Jr’s nwandering about.

          • lawdawg541

            Seriously Patsy, do I need to post all those femmie pictures from your home page? You know, the ones with no women except for mommy? You might as well have the LGBT rainbow flag at the top it is so painfully obvious.

          • LMAO!

            Seriously Candy,nnnDid you get a tampon stuck? Noticing your post disappearing lately, LOSER !!!

          • lawdawg541

            Nah, just getting bored with the Seattle fairy…

          • Robin Hood

            All I can figure is you’re a “log cabin” rethuglican’t, that sees what you want son… Seek help, you’re seriously STOOPID !!!nnBTW- Looking at your page, is that a son or your next “conquest” ?nnnPosts disappearing ?? PERFECT !!!nnnDoes it SUCK your peers find you a little —–!!

          • Robin Hood

            All I can figure is you’re a “log cabin” rethuglican’t, that sees what you want son… Seek help, you’re seriously STOOPID !!!nnnnnBTW- Looking at your page, is that a son or your next “conquest” ?

          • Guest

            I hate to say you’re losing, but you’re not even in the same ballpark when it comes to insults.

          • lawdawg541

            Retarded.

          • Robin Hood

            Dude, we know, but we consider you simply “special”.nnnLMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            Is that you Pat Costello? Nice pics. No women but mommy in you photo’s….Oops, I guess THAT cat is out of the bag….

          • Robin Hood

            So, you’ve seen the pics & you know who’s the bigger, better man, huh runt ???nnnLMAO !nnnNow, get mouthy…. Hey, why not edit your posts, to look less…ohnnnLMAO ! nnnMan, I see why the 12 year old KYA…

          • lawdawg541

            Quite the contrary twinkle toes. You are every bit the scrawny little wimp I thought you would be. The pillow biter caught me by surprise though. Wait, no it didn’t…

          • Robin Hood

            So, are you even 6″ ? Oh sorry, I meant 6′, but made a Freudian slip….nnLMAO !nnBe careful, I’ve read it’s STOOPID to spend a large amount of YOUR time on here whining, because of a sad, little, life.nnn(Punctuation added, because of an actual IQ.)

          • lawdawg541

            Haha, SOMEONE is getting agitated! Seriously Tinkerbell, I could care less if you like things in your butt, that is your business. But instead of “Robin Hood”, you should choose an action hero more fitting….like Batman! No BUTTMAN!! and your partner can be Throbin. Buttman and Throbin. On a serious note Buttman, yes, I am only at a measly 93 posts. My goal is to someday be at 6100 like my new gay superhero…

          • Robin Hood

            Yep,nnSomeone is getting agitated w/50 posts in a day…nnLMAO !nn Love your religious.. ..”behavior”!nnnLMAO !nnnnnWe see you !!!!

          • lawdawg541

            Looks like someone is hitting the sauce a little early. Judging by your scrawny, candy-ass pictures I’d say you look to be in your mid to late twenties. I guess I’d be drinking too if I had a receding hair line in my 20’s, I was as pasty-white as a bowl of vanilla ice cream, and the best pictures I could come up with was me sitting on Santa’s lap (with my mommy). Bwwwwwaaaa, sometimes nature is the best revenge.

          • Robin Hood

            Nor receding at all, were you looking at your pics, pal ??nnnnnLMAO !nnnYou’re a little short in the IQ, huh ???

          • lawdawg541

            Dude, getting past the denial is the first step. Ok, maybe your forehead just goes waaay back.

          • Robin Hood

            The overwhelming power of the sex drive was demonstrated n by the fact that someone was willing to father you.n n n nnThe twinkle in his eyes is actually the sun shining n between his ears.

          • lawdawg541

            I find satisfaction in knowing pillow biters like you cannot reproduce.

          • Robin Hood

            Guys like you are why girls turn lesbian.nttnHold on, I’ll go find you a tampon.nttnIf I give you some Midol, will that shut you up?

          • Robin Hood

            LMAO !nnLet me know if you ever have a kid, I’ll send a condolence fruit basket fulla dog biscuits…nnLMAO !nnSo, Andy (can’t get) Wood… how do you reproduce, again ?? All I see is your gay fantasies….

          • lawdawg541

            Haha, you’re the pole smoker, not me, Tinkerbell.nnnnn

          • Sick as a dog

            Duchess…. you need a head transplant on both ends.nnnWhat R U a gay stalker

          • lawdawg541

            “Guest”, hahaha, yeah right!

          • Father Guido Sarducci

            Hey Candy Wood,nnDo you still have a “purdy” mouth? Open wide, I hated knocking out your teeth, last time. Nice lipstick…

          • Robin Hood

            Seems you’re a self “proclaimed” flamer expert, right ???nnnnSorry, about that brown stash I left on you, I’ll remember to wash next time.

          • Robin Hood

            I “reproduced” your wife several times…nnnnnLMAO !

          • WHAT?

            Hey Dead Dog,nnnHow do you know Robin can’t REPRODUCE, did his sperm taste “off”, to you?nnnWhy no move onto boards, where you have an opinion to share?

          • Robin Hood

            When you pass away and people ask me what the cause of your death was, I’ll say your stupidity.n When you die, you should have your brain donated to science. I hear they’re trying to come up with the perfect vacuum.

          • lawdawg541

            Haha. Your retarded responses are almost as entertaining as a Jackie Chan movie.

          • Robin Hood

            Glad you’re happy, I can honestly say I contributed to the welfare of the less fortunate retarded community, today.nnnnnLMAO !nnnnnHave a kid explain it, tea tw@t !!!!

          • Robin Hood

            Only pervs demean kids……nnnnnSad “man” you “think” you are…nnI’d suggest time with a priest, butt…Perhaps, that’s where it all began, right ?nnLMAO!

          • Sean

            Facts matter. MEdical expenses as WHOLE are slower than at any point in 4 decades You cant make stuff u o just because you want to

          • Sabalom Glitz

            Well, you seem perfectly happy to make things up so i think your baseless charge is humorous at best, partisan blindness at worst.

          • IndyfromAZ

            Well, The head actor once said he mad $10,000 a week (or $58,000 now). So yeah, they were evil rich people. Not very fair.

          • Robin Hood

            he mad 10k ?

          • Sabalom Glitz

            Ah, look at the childish liberal. He thinks he’s so cute and smart. How old are you sonny? 5??

          • Robin Hood

            As “intelligent” as any of your posts. So, the number 5 is a sentence, right ???nnnnnHILARIOUS !

          • lawdawg541

            You are the most childish, vile person I have seen on these blogs. What a loser…

          • Robin Hood

            I don’t know what you’re “seeing”, but look up from my belt line, little “man”.nnZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP ! There, sorry.

          • lawdawg541

            Classy, little runt.

          • Robin Hood

            Did you unzip to compare & you’re talking to your “member” ?nnnCalling it classy means exactly WHAT ? I get the runt.

          • lawdawg541

            Go smoke another bowl slimeball.

          • Robin Hood

            Bearing “false witless” holey Joe ?? Yeah, religious hypocrisy is your “go to move” & I stuff it right back in your ugly mug, you f’n internet “big man”.nnLMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            Wow, did you come up with that on your own? Moron….

          • Robin Hood

            ” If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, smells like duck cr@p, it’s probably “Andy the can’t get Wood” duck !”nnnHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH~~!

          • IndyfromAZ

            Liberals will d anything childish to avoid address an actual issue.

          • Robin Hood

            He mad ???nnnnnYou mad too, bro ??

          • remainderman

            Here’s an idea. Look up the word reply before you hit that little blue-bolded word that looks just like reply. A reply would infer that your comments have something to do with the original statement. Waltons? Meaning the fictional characters or the family that founded Wal-mart? I’m guessing the latter. But if you research the history of Sam Walton, you’d find both hard work and high earnings. So you can put that answer down to what I’m assuming is a long list of stupid questions. nnnnThe piano reference. Boy, I’m going to have to ask you to tell me what your smoking or sniffing so I can go to my back-yard bunker and dig out some of my apocalypse-day stash just to keep up with you. (I’m thinking cocaine as all of your replies are short and seemingly unrelated. Cocaine highs don’t last long and they cause a huge disconnect with previous reality when coming down, but i could be wrong). My criminal justice students probably play the piano about the same after I’m done teaching them. Sorry, that’s the best response I can come up with until I can find my tiny tea spoon. I think I left it at a party I went to recently.

          • Robin Hood

            So, you wrote -nn”This is why OUR current government does not care about whether people nwork or have a history of working before they are given benefits.”nnnThey you pretend Sam Walton’s work counts for the family ?? Wow !?? Sure hope you’re better at “teaching” piano, then you are at “thinking”. Nice deflection, in your head UP position… it’s clever to even type. Do your CJ students use commas any better…Prof ??nnnnnLMAO !

          • https://www.etsy.com/shop/TroppoBella ThankfulE

            Actually, you’re incorrect about the quality of socialist care in Europe. I happen to be European and American (dual citizen), and you might want to study how the Scandinavian countries do socialism, because, not only does it function exceptionally well, but they happen to be the countries that top the list of happiest/most content. So, I’m not sure what your priorities are in life, but having come from an exceptionally wealthy family, with the best education money could buy, and all the privileges that go along with it, I can honestly say that money cannot buy happiness, and that giving, a sense of community, compassion and kindness are far more important. We should be so lucky as to move in that direction…

          • remainderman

            I really didn’t comment on the quality of services you find in Scandinavian countries. I did say that if someone wants to give up power and $$ to the government so they can buy things for them, more power to them. As a system, I find it absurd. I can make my own way, and buy my own things, thank you very much. I do understand that many European socialist countries do just fine. But America is not based on socialism. We are not homogeneous. We are a melting pot of disparate cultures. Some cultures here have no problem believing they are owed a living and thus feel they should be taken care of. They are fine with not working and just sitting around smoking pot and living off those of us who do work. And we have the democratic party here who exploits that. They stir up class warfare and convince people that the rich capitalists are the problem and if you just give up your rights to the government, all will be taken care of–with them in control of course, and living like the old Soviet Politburo.nI have studied some of the socialists systems in Europe. Most require that you put into the system before you take out. You’re are not entitled to a certain standard of living just because you are alive and don’t want to work.

          • Dave Ivie

            And the key reason why the Scandinavian countries have better economies than say Greece or Spain is because they are adopting free market principles.

          • amcphaull

            Why is the assumption that “socialism” has only 1 directional flow…..taking from earners and giving to non-earners?nnLooking at the complexity of the US tax code, seems a good argument could be made that money is taken from the (regular) wage earners and redistributed to the (high end) wage earner…or better yet, to a Corporation..especially those with a multi-national footprint.

          • remainderman

            Yes, that’s called commerce. Those evil corporations “take” our money. In actuality you have a point. The insidiousness of socialism is that the one way directional flow of socialism has one common denominator among all types of socialism, and that is the money first flows to the government. Then they “give” it out to all sorts of groups. They demand then that you do what they want so you can get services, funding, or relief from certain legislation, etc. Bottom line, our Constitution limits the powers of our government, socialism gives that power pack and more.

          • https://www.etsy.com/shop/TroppoBella ThankfulE

            It’s Corporatism. See my earlier comment for a full definition.

          • Sean

            Oh you mean like having a military. If military service is so patriotic, how about we have all those people do it for FREE. If you cant afford to serve, then the wealthy should go about taking care of it to “keep america strong”

          • artfuldgr

            services are payed for by the recipients, not by the government who uses the monopoly on death to force people to comply. combine it with abortion, and you ahve good people choosing to exterminate their famillies as the state did not leave them enough… but thats ok… you can read about a woman here who has an 8 bedroom apartment on section 8… and refuses to leave now that her kids are adults with children and been ot of the place for over a decade..

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=759782358 Ed Resleff

            Sorry… Those who favor socialist tendencies wouldn’t understand what the Federalist Papers is all about… much less want to be enlightened by that kind of thinking…

          • remainderman

            I teach college students, and almost none have herd of Publius, Thomas Hobbs or John Locke. A few have heard of Rousseau. Not so after they have me. I get a lot of blank stairs when I talk about freedom in terms of being free from a government hell-bent on giving you something. This story about 15 dollars an hour min wage is exactly foreseen in the first publication of the papers. In it, Alexander outlined the same battle the people of any civilization faced when they wanted to be free. He wrote:nn”It has been frequently remarked, that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not, of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend, for their political constitutions, on accident and force. -A. HamiltonnnnnThere is the direct oppression that comes from those wanting to end our way of life. There there’s the soft despotism of sucking at the teat of the public trough which was also warned of. Looks like the naysayers of the times might have been right, We’ll see.

          • Brianna Aubin

            Stop lumping in the stuff government’s actually supposed to do (military, elections, CDC, currency) with things that the state shouldn’t be doing and really should get out of (oh God public education? Can you seriously look at our school systems and tell me the government’s doing well on that?)

          • LlarryLLama

            The government only got into public education because the private parents have better things to do than to educate their own kids, such as working two jobs to make ends meet and pay all the taxes and fees that come with living in a pseudo-socialist society.

          • Robin Hood

            Well heck, it seems like you’d be for paying folks, rather than rattling rhetoric…if you had a human brain.

          • Jkyacht

            And your point is what? The dysfunction of all of these bloated agencies? Oh wait, you proved the point that socialism is inherently dysfunctional!

          • Chris Sea-la

            Socialism and social services are two very different things. Try educating yourself.

          • lawdawg541

            Matt Haskins, you just revealed your room-temperature I.Q.

          • Robin Hood

            Good job energy saving & keeping yours’ really LOW !

          • LlarryLLama

            Matt, my child, the government has “socialized” nearly everything on your list, and also royally screwed all those things up. That’s “socialism” for you.

          • 101survivalist

            Each one is over-budget, under performing and poorly managed

          • repoGod

            oh wait that’s right let me finish it for you these are the morons and voted in Obama oh yeah get rid of our military socializing it give us socialized medicine and nowand now a foothold for socializing labor nobody flipping a burger deserves $15 an hourI have a college degree two masters and I still don’t get $15 an hour

          • Marc Altier

            And I can argue that not one of those agencies work well and are cost effective, TY for proving the point!

          • Steve Morandi

            Half those SHOULD be private. They might work

          • Kevin Holm

            Yeah just look how well those are run. …

          • Michael Harrington

            So witty of you.

            And yet not. Fixing wages ever higher seems to be a new socialist thing, as does this claim of living wage, as does other inane unsupportable ideas. A 10 billion dollar bridge when a 500 million dollar option exists? FOR MOTHER RUSSIA! Oh wait, Mother USA, but you want that toll bridge so badly you can taste it. More taxes, less rights, more regulations, less jobs, more sitting at home living it up while the losers slave away in life.

          • Armed n Educated

            How is it socialist to have a military? Are you that stupid?

          • Vic R

            These are the worst and the best examples of socialized government waste and wanton incompetence. You just listed the most perfect examples of Government incompetence. Well done. Tell me, how has the democrat party improved your social and economic life? Are you a rich person with a big mouth or a regular Joe whohas seen significant life improvements all brought upon him by his beloved government? Please do tell how your government has improved your economics and social welfare? OR are you perhaps a welfare recipient?

          • Vic R

            I repeat myself, so you can realize that i ask for answers to those questions. I suspect you will reply with hateful name calling to show your complete lack of understanding of how your D Government has completely destroyed the fabric of American Values and Society. D is the party of the rich whose money don’t stink under the guise of social charity.

          • Molly

            Please don’t tell me anyone can be that vastly ignorant about what socialism is and is not. There is a HUGE difference between voluntarily pooling resources to buy goods and services and being coerced to do so by your government.

            The difference between a democratic capitalist society and a socialist one is that under the former, we FREELY decide what goods and services we want to buy collectively rather than having those choices FORCED upon us.

        • fornforn

          Why is it always the conservatives that resort to sophomoric name calling first

          • remainderman

            I save my name-calling until the last, So quit broad-brushing us conservatives. Further, my name-calling is not sophomoric, you tea-hating, kool-aid drinker.

          • LlarryLLama

            uhh you liberals wrote the book on name-calling. Just watch MSNBC sometime.

          • Robin Hood

            Obama’s been called more names, than a con can count. Any con that denies that LIES !

          • Jeffrey9167

            Are you homosexual?

          • Robin Hood

            Not your dad, no….nnSee “juvenile, name calling” con… above.

          • VoteLibertarian

            I beg to differ on that one fornforn……I get less name calling and childish game from rep then I do dems. You all I swear….*Shaking head* *Now a deep breath*

          • lawdawg541

            Well, we have to get on your level. About the 3rd or 4th grade level, that is…

          • Robin Hood

            Are you homosexual? Well, we have to get on your level. About the 3rd or 4th grade level, that is..

        • habu686

          lol

        • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

          Uh oh, must have hit a nerve, the gun nut retard is frothing at the mouth. Hey fuckwad, why don’t you try moving down South to your conservatard utopia and you’ll discover that they’re the poorest, dumbest, fattest part f the nation. And they’ve always been run by conservatives. RETARD.

          • lawdawg541

            Wow, you kiss your mom with that gutter-mouth? Another liberal class act on display…

          • Robin Hood

            You realize you should spot AT kissing your mom, right ?? Last time, we had to throw a bucket of water to separate you two.

          • http://batman-news.com Jill Edgerton

            Awwww, can’t handle foul language Boy Scout? Notice how you can’t defend your ideology so you just change the subject. Grow a pair pussy

      • Orpheus75

        Are you sure he’s a gun nut, or did you just pull that one out of your @$$ since he made a remark against her? You anti-gun nuts seem to make statements without knowing anything about any of them. Stick with your kool-aid and abortions. You can’t handle any more than that.

        • Mike O’Connell

          I’m sure he’s a gun nut.

          • Mark Antigonos

            I’m a gun nut!

        • Nuttin’ Honey

          Maybe lawdawg is just a coffee nut and didn’t read the rest of his avatar, but I’m giving him credit and assuming that he read the whole thing and made a conscious decision to use that avatar therefore proclaiming for all the world that he is indeed INTO both guns AND coffee. I myself am into coffee AND cameras and would not be offended if someone called me a camera nut.

          • fltflyer

            How about we eliminate the descriptive and just call you a “nut.”

        • Erik

          You’re not good at using your eyes are you?

        • lawdawg541

          I’m a firearms instructor for the record, but apparently I’m just a “gun nut.”

          • Robin Hood

            Tell us the Chris Kyle bedtime story, daddy .

        • VoteLibertarian

          Gun nut here…Proud of it to. But the problem is you all use it to try and hurt someone. You all are changing the meaning of words again. Just as redneck and N*iger has been changed. Notice how I only had to change one of them words? Even though they both are considered hate filled words…..Like I keep repeating what is wrong with you people? O quick lesson before I go. N*GER mean Like King..Redneck pretty much means Patriot. You can look into more for a more detailed nndescription. Sure maybe one of you will.

          • Orpheus75

            “Gun nut” here also. Just in case there was some misconception.

        • Robin Hood

          The Gun & coffee was the CLUE….. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !

      • Cody McCubbin

        Pick up a newspaper once in awhile…nnhttp://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/socialist-seattle-city-council/4349923/

        • Puddin’ Tane

          That’s really funny that you say “pickup a newspaper once in awhile” and then link to an online article. That’s exactly the reason so few of us do pickup a newspaper anymore. However, I do usually get my news from more reliable sources than USA Today !

          • Cody McCubbin

            “pick up a newspaper” is a figure of speech.. if you can’t understand that? Second. That was the first link I found via google.. but I heard about the socialist being voted in a while back ago. Just needed something to show everyone else that it DID happen. JGRSELP didn’t believe it. nnSo, if USA Today is so unrealiable, yet, they’re still able to publish this factual story makes me wonder where you get your news from? So, oh wise one, where is this well of reliable source of news? The Daily Show?

      • Mark Antigonos

        Hey jackass, there is very little difference between socialists, communists and Marxists. Obviously YOU know very little about any of them you stupid douchebag-moron.nnONLY difference (slight, at that) is the method of delivery.

        • Darrell

          What’s the difference between a socialist and a communist?nThe communist is in a hurry.

        • Erik

          There is an EXTREME difference between those things. You’ve clearly never lived in Eastern Europe or taken college level history classes on the subjects at hand.

          • DuaneL

            Doesn’t matter. Progressive/Fascist/Socialist/Communist are all statists. Central control, no individual liberty…

          • lawdawg541

            Don’t confuse the liberal retards with facts.

          • lolokay

            Don’t confuse Republicans with informed voters.

          • Robin Hood

            Seems like Palin had a tard, right ? If I were a con, I’d tread lightly on that hateful word, but their need to group, then hate is almost instinctual …

          • Jeffrey9167

            Sarah palin is gorgeous. Hillary Clinton…..well I don’t blame bill for wondering.

          • Robin Hood

            Sarah is SHRILL & a complete tard factory…nnHeck she had 5 kids Bristol. Piper. Track. Willow. Trig & none of them can match Chelsea in looks, education, or class.

          • Jeffrey9167

            Chelsea, eeeeewwww! She just a bunch of teeth and gums. Yuck!

          • Robin Hood

            Yeah, I had you pegged for trig da trad….nnnIt coulda been Bristol, before she bought a better face.

          • Jeffrey9167

            Listen, you cannot expect Bill and Hillary to produce attractive offspring. Sarah Palin and her husband are a much more attractive couple. Its all in the DNA.

          • Robin Hood

            “It’s” in the tard DNA, right ???nnnnnLMAO ! Listen ??? LOSER !!

          • Jeffrey9167

            You are a strange fellow.

          • Robin Hood

            Letter to Bristol ?

          • lolwut

            The constitution is statist because it directly gives the federal government power. nnSo really the founding fathers were statists because they created the constitution which gives the federal government direct power. nnGet an education please.

          • DuaneL

            I have gotten an education and the Constitution does not give power, it restrains power. Which is why statists hate it. It tries to keep power from being centralized, thus no checks and balances to stop corruption. There has been no freer country than this one with the most potential for personal liberty. Every other “society”” has been greater oppressors of their people.

          • remainderman

            Wow, is that your best shot? Read the Tenth Amendment, then the Fourteenth and then suit back up and try to contribute something intelligent. Spoiler alert: The Articles of the Constitution gives the federal government enumerated and expressed powers. The Tenth Amendment gives those powers LIMITS. And not just limits, but a hard line that says they are their ONLY powers, all else are left to the states. In fact, Originally the Constitution and the Amendments limited the federal government’s power ONLY, not the states. All of our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights limited the feds only. For example, there was no state police Fourth Amendment violations until the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified, and even then it took 100 years of court decisions to give us those rights against the states. There’s more, but do your own reading. Please read the actual Constitution and not rely on some liberal professor to tell you what it means. Think for yourself. At present you have that right. Keep voting democrats in, and one day you won’t.

          • LlarryLLama

            But the fathers didn’t intend for the federal government to circumvent that constitution. We were meant to be a republic based on the constitution, not a democracy.

          • lolwut

            Republican logic: Hard worker = a CEO who works 200 or less hours a year but makes 1000% more on average than the people working for his company.nnEntitled Lazy person: Someone who works 40 hours a week and expect to be able to afford a decent life. nnRepublican logic is no logic at all, its a bought and paid for narrative created by the rich so that ignorant republicans will blame the poor for their problems and keep the super rich in power.

          • DuaneL

            Actually you have just described the Progressives. Your diatribes are all off based propaganda talking points. The wealthiest contribute to the DNC. The wealthiest in DC are Democrats. There are Progressives in both parties but they have run the Democrat party for decades and will soon run both. Interesting that you would do the obvious and put CEO. Do you fell the same about artists? Mega millionaire celebrities that pay their people squat will little to no benefits? Or do you only pick on the people that create jobs and opportunities for others?

          • DuaneL

            The fact that you still talk in terms of “parties” is telling. Anybody can join a party. The question is what is the ideology. What have the actions of the ideology yielded. Currently, the Democrats and establishment GOP are the same only arguing over which special interests to spend our money on with no consideration for us. If you believe either party is for the people, you are either blind or naive.

          • gohawkyourself

            You people have to much time on your hands

          • TJ Terry Mitchner

            Yup, i haven’t heard that one 500 million times. NOT. I hear that shit every goddamn day.nnnI’m sick of this shit so i give up even trying to establish logical, factual debate or conversation with you brainwashed “progressive” retards. ( have already accepted the radical, communist ideals, principals and values that are being implemented in Gov’t. The traditional American Democrat category for a politician has long been dead.)nnSeriously…it’s pointless for me to waste time even arguing with you dumb fucks. nnIv’e spent too much time and energy the past few years, passionately advocating, or just trying to encourage people to think and research logically. nnI have a B.A. in political science, from a liberally dominant school (what’s new??). So I know my shit.nnnI know what the fuck is going on today with our government. nnnSo, yes,it is very obvious that you are simply re-iterating the same old propagandized, bias, misinforming, & decietful “standard talking points” that you hear in the mainstream “news”. I hear it everywhere i go. No surprise…nnnnnnBut it is not worthless, however,spending a couple minutes just reminding people like you,that you are all DUMBFUCKSnnGet your shit together. Stop being such gullible ASSHOLES and use your goddamn brain. Seriously.

          • LlarryLLama

            You don’t really believe what you wrote, do you? No one, and I mean no one, could be that stupid. At least you aren’t using your real name (I hope).

          • LlarryLLama

            ..and if you’re an apologist for Eastern Europe, neither have you.

      • Mahakala

        You can’t handle the truth comrade…. or is it Useful Idiot?

      • Unknown

        You make no sense

      • torkzilla

        Not a lot going on up there eh jgsluper….you progs are about the dumbest pieces of America hating,human debris,welfare loving,tomb to the womb.cradle to grave,gimme gimme gimme,you owe me a living morons! YOU ARE WHAT IS KILLING THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!! FACT!!!!!!!

        • BlueState

          Which is why, across the board, red states take more from the welfare system that they contribute while blue states contribute more that they take. Because liberals are gimme, gimme… Oh, wait…

          • lolokay

            Republicans ignore that fact so that they can continue to call Liberals lazy. Its all they got, hence why they keep losing elections and won’t have another president in office for decades.

      • suziqueMN

        She is a self-professed socialist; at least that is what she said during the campaign.n

      • askal2u

        She’s Obama’s sister, so they are on the same page like you. I don’t have guns, but I better have one to defend my self from crazy criminals and anti-guns nuts like you.

      • squid1

        Well…considering the fact that she openly ran as a socialist, and repeats the claim on a daily basis…

      • InternetSavage

        Commies, Marxists, socialists they are all the same, totalitarian control freaks and it always ends the same way.

      • Dwayne Jackson

        Hey idiot how do you know dawg is a gun nut? By your comment though I can see you believe in gun regulations to keep you safe like those who live in Chicago. Good luck with that by the way. P.S. You stupidity is showing.

      • djtmetz

        Depends on who you’re asking and when… Back in the 1890s, communist and socialist were practically interchangeable. And for that matter, self-described anarchists were typically fellow travelers. Nowadays it’s more typical to visualize it like a venn diagram of overlapping and/or concentric circles. Call socialism the big circle, with communism, national socialism, democratic socialism / fabianism, etc as smaller overlapping circles within socialism. You could call them sub-ideologies, or think of them as implementations of the bigger ideologies (though, when it comes to the practical implementation, it’s hard to square everything that was done as being perfectly in line with all the ideas of the sub-ideology, nevermind socialism as a whole)…nnSo I guess my answer is “it’s complicated,” and every group of socialists seems to have denounced every other group of socialists, so it’s a big fat case of “no true Scotsman” to boot. At the least, I think it’s fair to say someone who is supportive of increased regulations and larger government as an end, and who uses identity politics or class warfare as a primary rhetorical tool is a socialist. Even that’s a bit too broad a brush…let’s just stick with “it’s complicated” and we’ll just accept anyone that claims to be a socialist directly or claims to be inspired by socialist writers is probably a socialist. Good ’nuff?

      • LlarryLLama

        same-o..socialists are commies without a gun, and anyone who would listen to that shrill and gibbering nutbag, Kshama Sawant, deserves what they got.

      • Ryan Layton

        Idiot

      • Paul Mock

        They are all the same economic system, the socialists just smile more when they impose it.

      • Steve Morandi

        What’s this got to do with gun?? Stay on topic fool

      • Edg1

        Like Mr. Spock said “A difference which makes no difference, IS no difference.” Socialism, Communism and Marxism are all evidence of wrong thinking. All have failed and all will always fail.

      • Robert Beckwith

        thhppppttttttttttt!

      • Armed n Educated

        Seems someone is a cranky pants. I’ll take my guns over your contraception thanks.

    • lolwut

      At least its not another fascist republican.

    • Robin Hood

      Be sure & group folks, to make hatred EZ for your mini-mind, mini-man.nnnPS- Don’t worry your pretty little head about pesky elections, you can blather outrage.. later….

      • Jeffrey9167

        You act like a 4th grader. Make that a 3rd grader.

        • Robin Hood

          Lotta “experience” with kids, PERV ?

        • Robin Hood

          Lotta “experience” with kids, PERVY?

        • Robin Hood

          Lotta “experience” with kids, DROOLING PERVY?

          • Jeffrey9167

            Is there an echo in here.

          • Robin Hood

            In your MT head ???

      • lawdawg541

        “Robin Hood”, a keyboard warrior and likely a skinny little runt.

        • Robin Hood

          Loud-Dog = A outta work, gypsy fortune teller, twerp….

          • lawdawg541

            Full time employed, ex- military, and if I saw you face to face you would need a good dental plan.

          • Robin Hood

            Bring a ladder…. LMAO !nnnnnLMAO !nnnnnLMAO !nnnnnEx-lax is more like it…nnOh no, the “big” man is spewing ions at me…nnLMAO !

    • Robin Hood

      LittleMutt,nnnReligion forgives your stupidity, I do , too.

      • lawdawg541

        Yeah, ok. Like I care.

      • lawdawg541

        Don’t need your forgiveness and never will.

        • Robin Hood

          At least, we agree on the stupidity… BWHAHAHAHAAHA !nnnSee how the bigger man, me…. opened dialog ?? nnnnYou’re WELCOME !!!

    • Robin Hood

      Andrew Wood…. Name calling for Jesus ???nnnLMAO !

      • lawdawg541

        Yep, I’m sure Jesus met his fair share of douchebags like you.

        • Robin Hood

          I’m sure YOUR Jesus called folks “douche-bags”, even though it’s “normally” 2 words.nnSee, I figure a POS, like you…doesn’t “actually” follow religion, because you’re an angry little “man” & blame God for your “stature”.

          • lawdawg541

            Ohhh, that hurts soooo much, especially since you don’t even know me. You are definitely the whiniest liberal wackjob on the internet.

          • Robin Hood

            So, your “premise” is…. you have to be known to be seen as short ??nnHervu00e9 Villechaize will be so happy !!nnnLMAO ! You’re a brick short, too tea tw@t.

    • Robin Hood

      Wow, you kiss your priest with that gutter-mouth? Another teahadist tw@t “class act”… on display…

      • lawdawg541

        Haha, what’s wrong Tinkerbell, boyfriend got hemorrhoids?

        • Robin Hood

          Looks like you’re a true “believer” in God…. In common language, a complete hypocrite. nnnnnnKnock of the pious & you ALWAYS find little…less than manly…liars nnLMAO ! So, do you ask, because you notice blood, when you were down there ??

    • Robin Hood

      Two words of advice: Diet and exercise. No no… Self control. No no… n[Look them up and down and condescendingly say] Ah, F it. You look nhappy.nttnAre you collecting chins?

    • Father Guido Sarducci

      Hey Candy Wood,nnnDo you still have a “purdy” mouth? Open wide, I hated knocking out your teeth, last time.

    • Robin Hood

      Love religious hypocrisy, “man”.

    • Jbdent

      yea also the same douche that took away the free plastic bag shit

  • shelby

    Gee, no one saw this was going to go terribly wrong. Employers used to be able to afford fringe benefits and now that money is being allocated to hourly wage. I think we’re just seeing the beginnings of a terrible idea going awry.

    • JGSRELP

      LOL, are you serious? The middle class wage hasnt gone up with inflation. The current wages have actually dipped since the 70s. Meaning, if these highly profitable companies would have been paying fair wages from the get go, you wouldnt have city or local governments arbitrarily raising minimum wage.

      • Dawg

        The middle class has never worked for minimum wage. They are called business for a reason…..making money, otherwise we’d call them charities.

  • Jones

    Ok folks as much as I really don’t want to waste my time, I cant help but to offer some education to the public. HOW IT WORKS: Economics is actually really simple—The more the people have to spend, the more the economy grows… Let me take you back to when I was a teen just out of school. The minimum wage was $2.10 and hour.. However gas was $.28 cent an gallon and you could rent a nice home for $100.00 a month.. Heck I thought I was rich with the money I was bringing home. But now everything has inflated throughout the years. But if you do the math, $15.00 an hour is just about what the minimum wage should be in this day and age compared to living expenses.. However in today, many things have changed and I am going to talk about tax write offs.. You see folks employers have been getting rich off of their employees for years for instance an employer pays an employee $15 an hour but they are charging $70.00 an hour for them. So the more employees they have, the more money they make.. But also to keep the tax man off their backs they have to have (write offs) this is writing off equipment, lunches, office supplies, their cars and boats and even their homes, etc and the list goes on. Also a company keeps growing and buying more equipment all the time to continue living the rich lifestyle they have grown accustomed to while their employees live a somewhat impoverished lifestyle. Oh yes that is right my friends,. the employers could pay the employees more to keep the tax man from taking it but NO, They would rather get out of tax by loopholes (write offs).. But to make the local economies even worse is, they are purchasing equipment and supplies from other large companies who are making lots of money and those companies are also NOT paying taxes.. So you see what is happening as the middle class people are being knocked down to poverty and a separation is taking place in society.. Society is moving to rich and poor and the middle class is being forced out. But wait,,don’t the middle class pay all the taxes? Why yes they do. The rich pay next to nothing, while the poor pay nothing. So who is paying to taxes that keep our country going? You tell me…It is not hard to notice that the local small businesses are closing doors every day. You can see all the vacant buildings throughout all the small cities and towns. So what caused this? Its simple. Lack of sales, lack of business. It had nothing to do with how much they paid employees. Its simply that the middle class was squeezed into poverty and don’t have the money to spend in the local economies. Is $15.00 too high to be minimum wage? No it is not..It should have been that years ago and maybe it would have saved our economy from the collapse it is experiencing..nAs far as these people who are unhappy with their new raise in pay. If your employer is punishing you for it by taking things away from you then its a piece of shit employer and you should find another job..Its as simple as that..Stop whining and start applying for better employment.. If you are an employer and you and mad about it then maybe you should blame your congressman and government for making our economic structure so bias towards the rich that created such a problem today..And I am sorry it will take you longer to pay for that million dollar home and BMW. Perhaps you can only have one 7 day vacation a year and have to budget a little.. Take care of your employees you fucking greedy bastards..Damn you

    • Richard Magnuson

      You must be a socialist English major with your aptitude for expressing yourself with the lowest form of adjectives. I like your broad all knowing statements that these unknown companies are not paying taxes. If it was not for the companies and people who invest there would not be jobs. But, I guess that is alright with you because they could work for the government like in the utopian Communist countries. A truck driver makes the same as a surgeon. No incentive to improve and the government dictates what you make, where you live and what occupation you will be in. Yes, living the dream. By the way, the middle class is not in poverty. You want to see real poverty go visit the socialist and dictatorship countries. Maybe North Korea or Haiti is for you.

      • ShaneJohns

        “If it was not for the companies and people who invest there would not be jobs.”nnThis is simply untrue. Work and jobs existed before currencies and companies did. Ergo, you do not NECESSARILY need investors or companies. You only REALLY need labor.

        • Richard Magnuson

          So, lets not have any companies or currencies but we will have labor. Exactly what then does labor do? If you are saying then a laborer is his own company to earn a return on labor then and company is bad then labor in itself is bad because labor produces for something like money or something in return. I can’t even say your argument is logical because there is no logic in your argument. You do sound like a recent recipient of the public education, non analytical thinking socialist propaganda curriculum. Please, research (economics) on your own and have enough confidence in self to independently develop reason and openness of free thought – not group conformity. Group conformity is the basis of socialism.

          • ShaneJohns

            Not a recent degree, but a dual degree in philosophy and computer science. I suggest you stick with the facts as I presented them. Money is a placeholder, nothing more, nothing less. If I have chickens, and you have goats, we could trade. I could give you 50 chickens for 1 goat. But what if I only have 20 chickens to sell? Or what if I have 50 chickens, but you only have half a goat (butchered, of course)? That’s where money comes into play. nnIt is fallacious to presume money as necessary for jobs. Money HELPS when we want to compare values and find the best prices. But it is not absolutely necessary, as any critical thinking should already tell you. We were doing work and earning our keep long before money was ever invented. We can abandon currencies and adopt new. We can get rid of currency altogether and simply create contracts between buyers and sellers. There are more potential solutions that I have time to list, including currencies such as electronic Bitcoin or others. But again, they only exist to make trade easier. Trade is, however, still possible without a currency. And I stand by that claim.

          • Richard Magnuson

            Trading chickens for goats will really help create a society, innovation, medical science, creation of products for the good like plumbing, the automobile, food to feed the world which the US does. Philosophy? Figures. Now, go ahead and invent something that is good for society rather than practicing a realm whose basis continues to change based on ever changing flavor of the day views which then means philosophy has no meaning and is dead because there is no constant and then you need to decide what is truth because truth is constantly changing so then what is the real truth? I now understand your inability to understand the proven basis of economics which is static and not ever changing due to the flavor of the day opinions.

          • ShaneJohns

            I gave you an example of how it could be done with each company having its own independent corporate ‘coin’. We have solved the Byzantine General Problem in computer science now. Money is evolving. You’re simply behind the learning curve. But your ego simply can’t have any of that.

          • Tonasket Jim

            Try bartering your way to a Big Mac, good luck

          • Mark Antigonos

            No wonder you dont get it Shane. Philosophy and Computer Science degrees do not an economist make! nnCurrency was invented to make trading easier. Granted, the money we have today is truly worthless, however, it is still universally traded. The “fair exchange rate” ONLY applies to currency because it has a legislated value as a universally valued commodity. If you are trading chickens for goats, it is up to you and the goat herder to determine whats fair between you- there is no concrete “fair exchange rate” without currency- for that matter, even currency is subject to the determined value of the seller.nnAlso, if all you have to trade is chickens, there is no guarantee that the goat herder would trade you ANY of his goats- not even for ALL of your chickens. True, the same can be said for currency- but since currency can pretty much buy just about anything, where chickens have a much smaller range of value in the world, trading goods is NOT easier than trading with currency.nnCritically thinking, I am all FOR a good trade- I like trading MORE than spending cash, but just because I like it, it doesnt make it more kosher.nnAnd refer to my earlier post to totally smash the idea that we would be making “well over $20/hour” by “simply” comparing the value of the 1964 quarter. There is much more to economics than philosophy, but your computer science degree should help you verify that your calculations are WAY off. $1.25 had the same purchasing power that $9.43 has today, – rate of inflation, but there are still other factors involved. QE, the manipulation of our currency, makes it almost impossible to figure anything exact, but $20/hour is quite a reach!

          • Mark Antigonos

            Actually Shane, after re-reading what you said, it appears I wasnt quite following what you were saying. Your point IS valid, but it is a bit exaggerated.nnThe bottom line is that we live in the real world. Utopic ideology will never work in the real world because it can only work in Utopia. Perfect ideas require perfect people and the perfect atmosphere. nnIt would be nice if everyone made more money, but in the real world, if everyone makes more money, then everything costs more. What good is 15 dollars an hour if it causes gas to go up to 10 bucks a gallon and grocery costs double and energy bills skyrocket and everything you buy gets more and more expensive? So, you make 15 bucks an hour, but you can only afford one gallon of gas, when you could afford 2 gallons on the $7.25/hr when gas was $3.50 per gallon before the minimum wage went up?nnThats how it works in the real world. The cost of everything goes up more than the increase in minimum wage. So now you have a bigger check, but it wont go as far and EVERYONE else is now suffering too! What hope does a person making minimum wage have, knowin g that even if they get a job making double what they make now, they still wont be able to pay the bills?

          • ShaneJohns

            I do get it. I admitted that currency/money makes trade easier. That was my point. It does not, however, ENABLE trade. You are doing nothing but shifting the goalposts as you get shut down in the argument. The original claim was that you can’t have JOBS without money/currency. And that claim is simply false. Instead of money, you’d have a market where you could take your items to trade — not for money, but for other commodities or services. If you have eggs, you go to the market with them and come home with a basket of goods that you received in exchange. Again, money only makes it more CONVENIENT. And the electronic currencies do exactly that. Each business could make their own crypto-coin. Mutual fund coins could also pop up for entire sectors. Once you realize that it’s just a TOKEN — a COUNTER — you don’t need it to be a token of any single specific type. nnI was speaking specifically to the amount of silver in the quarters from 1964. If you compare that silver content to silver prices today, the amount should be upwards of $20. When you use a currency that is not pegged to anything — completely FIAT — you wind up with this phenomenon — as wages rise, but actual buying power still falls. It’s just a counter. You blame it on QE and currency manipulation. True. Of course. But that’s the whole PURPOSE of a fiat money supply. nnI deal with cryptocoins on a daily basis, and know this technology quite well. You’re just enamored with a particular ‘shiny object’, and refusing to admit that it can be handled other ways. Even within the cryptocoin community, you have people such as yourself making the argument that only Bitcoin is the one with ‘real value’ — the rest of them are all knockoffs. I don’t agree with this viewpoint, as you can probably imagine. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is whether you were able to make the trade happen without any loss of value sustained. And I contend that can EASILY be done with cryptocoins. And what ARE cryptocoins other than public ledgers?

        • lawdawg541

          Businesses start with capital, moron, or else everybody would own one. Geez, Economics 101…

          • Peanut Head

            Lots of name calling here and not much intelligent debate! But please let me point out that the way our economy is moving, the laborers are expected to pay for their own “how to use a shovel” education, supply their own shovels, and if your ditch collapses on them they pay for their own healthcare. And there are fewer and fewer options for better employment so if you are a ditch digger by trade, you don’t have an opportunity to do get the training to do something better.

          • lawdawg541

            Fhfdvkjhffjokffioj. Sorry, that was me banging my head on the keyboard. You are truly retarded.

          • Robin Hood

            Explains your IQ.nnnLMAO !

          • Robin Hood

            Your “theory” is you can have 100 of the best ditch diggers available & none of them own shovels ?nnnnnHow did they get to be any good, without tools & practice, m@r@n ?nnnHeck, as stupid as that point was, I’m betting any of them can fool you into the digging.nnnLMAO !

        • 23x125TT

          Wow…philosophy…I am impressed. You’re obviously not a critical thinker.nIf investors and companies are not required, then why is labor even wasting it’s time dealing with employers? And…here’s something else for you to consider…why would there even be discussion of a minimum wage?

          • Jared Small

            I labor for capitol. AKA work for money… : – )

      • Ian Cook

        Haha! You complain about his making broad statements, then you follow up with some broad statements of your own! Way to go genius!

        • Jared Small

          He is correct in his broad statement. Poverty in DPRK and Haiti are real- Not like how we define poverty here where our poor have flat screen TVs, cell phones, and video games.

          • Ian Cook

            He makes no specifics actually, he says “utopian communist countries”. Paints a pretty broad stroke.

          • Jared Small

            Actually there are no utopian communist countries unless you ask the propaganda minister of the country in question. But you nit pick and make mistakes all the time. nnnAre you familiar with glass houses?

      • Mike

        An English major would know how to use paragraphs to break up this rambling incoherent mess. I stopped reading after about four sentences. Education does not make one intelligent.

    • Ellie Wyatt

      inflation is a bitch isn’t it. that hidden tax destroying the money supply… I too hate the time to explain the simplistic nature of money supply… when you spend more money insuring bad loans than you make back in fee’s the more money you have to print to be able to keep loaning. How much money did we send Egypt last year 250 BILLION dollars… someone has got to pay that bill … oh wait we are 17 TRILLION dollars in debt…and thats just what we know about. but hey how bad can it be inflating the money supply out of thin air when you can back it nwith the full faith and credit of every tax paying American

    • taek

      Wow. You must be a smart economist. That makes perfectly sense. So why we stop at $15/hr? Why not have $15,000/hr minimum wage if it is so wonderful? That way all those waitress and housekeepers can buy BMWs after working for a day. Work for a week and they can buy a house. That’s your idea of stimulating the economy right?nnYou said “employers have been getting rich off of their employees for years.” Since you love talking trash about your employer, why not tell your employer that he/she is a piece of shit and you should get paid gazillion dollar per hour. That’s if you have a job of course.

      • Ian Cook

        Don’t be an idiot, that’s not what he said at all. SMH

        • Jared Small

          “Don’t be an idiot” -good advice you should listen to yourself.

          • Ian Cook

            Oooooh Burn!

          • Jared Small

            kinda like when you pee?

          • Robin Hood

            Does it taste hot ?

          • Jared Small

            Looking for a new watersports partner? Why not reply to him directly for the hook up.

          • Robin Hood

            You’re the “man” testing pee temps, pal…nnnSome kinda “love connection”, I’m guessing…nnLMAO !nnnWhatever you guys agree to is fine with US, just do it in private. Try Texas, they’re twits,…..nnn nnPS- I am laughing in your general direction. ; – )

    • 23x125TT

      This is education? Who knew?

    • Larry

      Mr. Jones, a point that may be getting missed here is this. The hourly wage is the biggest driving factor in the cost of goods and services. Hourly wages go up, so do the cost and services in relatively equal portions. By raising the minimum wage so steeply and suddenly, we don’t have more to spend because the cost of what we are buying just went up. In turn, this drives our businesses to look overseas for cheaper labor and production costs, in yet another turn, this drive unemployment up because our beauracracy has driven job creation into the ground. If a business’ product or service become too expensive to use, the business must shut down (or become subsidized by the government which will drive the deficit higher). Many of your mindset say “cut the tax loopholes for corporations”. These corporations provide jobs and fair wages to our citizens – its a simple business decision. If a company cannot maintain a profit margin, it fails and it takes all of the jobs with it. Municipalities see the benefit of offering tax savings to corporations because they provide jobs to their citizens. Working citizens buy goods and services based on a reasonable market value. (Do you see the repeating cycle?) The free market allows ALL CITIZENS to find a better job if they feel their skills are underpaid. Are you self employed or independently wealthy? If not, then you probably work for a company/business that you have freely entered into an agreement for use of your time in return for an agreed compensation system. If you demanded more than the market value of your skills and experience, you would likely find yourself unemployed in a New York minute. Another option is that you develop a product or service, take on all of the risk associated with marketing that product or service, and the continued risk of keeping the business end of that operating successfully. In my opinion and experience – the minimum wage was never meant to be a wage to raise a family, buy a house, or a BMW with. It is a starting point for those with little or no experience to build their work experience on. Get a job, share an apartment with a friend or two, get some experience, finish schooling or work hard and move up the ladder to earn that salary so you can buy a house, build a family, or drive a nice car. EARN it! No one is ENTITLED to it! nIn later posts you’ll read about trading chickens and goats – that’s nonsense and we, hopefully, will never see those days again. Because if we do, the world financial market has completely failed and we will have much worse things to worry about than the value of my goats to your chickens. Does anyone think that we became the most desired nation to live in because of Socialism principles or because of the opportunities that a Free Market has created for everyone. Yes I get angry about how much money can one man really need, but then I realize that comes from my own envy and I realize that only I can change that by chasing after my own dream rather than demolishing someone else’s. Socialism and Liberalism is essentially that – if I can’t have that – then no one can or should.

      • Jared Small

        FTFY- Socialism and Liberalism is essentially that – if I can’t get that myself – then you need to give it to me regardless of the consequence. nnn: – )

      • Jacqui

        Not all large corporations are providing “provide jobs and fair wages to our citizens”. Wal-Mart for example is working the system so they do not have to provide benefits and pay the lowest they can. As for tax loop holes, they were originally designed to promote additional spending whether through capital purchases (more buildings/machines) or being able to hire more employees. Unfortunately, most of this tax savings is now being moved into into paying CEO’s (who also enjoy tax loop holes), funding offshore plants etc to make lower cost items to sell us, and funding lobbyists to ensure that the laws of this country (including state and local) favor big business.

        • LilMountain

          If the people working there feel exploited, they can go elsewhere. If it so happens that Walmart could more easily replace them as workers than they can replace Walmart as their employer then perhaps they are being paid what their services are worth

    • LilMountain

      “The more the people have to spend, the more the economy grows”nnSo by that logic… a million dollar minimum salary for everyone right? Make everybody rich?nn”The minimum wage was $2.10 and hour.. However gas was $.28 cent an gallon and you could rent a nice home for $100.00 a month.. Heck I thought I was rich with the money I was bringing home. But now everything has inflated throughout the years “nnOh, that’s right, as the minimum wage went up the price of goods and services went up too… I wonder if there’s any correlation? nn”You see folks employers have been getting rich off of their employees for years for instance an employer pays an employee $15 an hour but they are charging $70.00 an hour for them. So the more employees they have, the more money they make.. “nnWhat are they, pimps? Is there nothing else involved? Like an office, maybe equipment, uniforms, training/certification, overhead like a sales team hustling up more business, any sort of recruiting/HR, any sort of billing, equipment manager and so forth… who is being charged $70 for all these people helping the employees making $15 an hour?nnI could go on, your whole post is full of ignorance

    • Mark Antigonos

      No, Jones! The federal minimum wage was $2.10/hr in 1975. With inflation alone, the minimum wage in 2014 should be $9.43/hour. However, because of “Quantitative Easing” (more commonly known as Q.E.), the artificial manipulation of the value of currency, the minimum wage should REALLY only be about $7.33/hour IF economic growth is the goal.nnDo you really believe that “Occupy Wallstreet” bullshit that the politicians and unions fabricated about “rich people?” Do you SERIOUSLY believe that “poverty” comes from the governments bias TOWARD the rich? Are you really so naive to believe that the problems today were caused by the rich?nnIt’s not that you don’t want to waste YOUR time, it’s that you DO want to waste OUR time by pretending to know what you are talking about. You are union-brainwashed. You remind me of Bill Maher, who is always trying to SOUND intelligent by making logic sound moronic. Smugness does not make wrong information any more credible, it only deepens the ignorance of the weak minded who’ll listen to you.

  • Jason Martinez

    better is to force stores not have a cap on how much they can charge for goods over wholesale . Next, stores can only have X percent of part time workers as part of their work force . And lastly no store owner , CEO , or whatever the man in charge calls himself can make more then 10 times what the base level employee makes

    • Jared Small

      I hope you were being sarcastic… If you were not being sarcastic then you have no clue how economics work. NONE.

  • Lou Milone

    This is what will happen over the entire country if the min. wage is rasied to that level!

    • JGSRELP

      No its not chicken little and the sky isnt falling either.

    • Ian Cook

      You know what helps with that? Try a tin foil hat, you’ll feel soo much better. You will completely stop hearing the voices.

  • Richard Magnuson

    Gee, never saw this coming at least the lemmings didn’t see it coming. Dumb.

  • Name

    Comical to hear the libs say that the increased wage means those workers have more money to spread around, thus it helps the economy. Really? When they are losing their 401k, vacation, overtime and other perks they have more to spread around? Nice theory, but it just doesn’t cut it in the real world. Incremental raises may have been a better solution, but as one person states so astutley in the comments below, what about all those people whose wages just got knocked down to the same level as, or very near to minimum wage workers? Do you think that all of their employers are just going to say here is a big raise to make up for the narrowing gap? Hardly. All that really matters to the progessives is that they feel so much better about themselves for trying (albeit unsuccessfully ) to make things right. They go to sleep at night knowing that they are such good people. To hell with the untintended consequences of their actions.

    • JGSRELP

      Im glad you think its comical that someone, someplace tried easing the depressed wage gap and the profitable corps got away with screwing their own employees anther way. Im glad that your sense of smugness comes from people barely making a living wage and that raising that wage was supposed to help. nnnAnd Im really glad that you feel better about yourself because, somehow you were right and these people are getting hosed but in a different way. Congrats, arent you a better person now.

      • lawdawg541

        No one said you had to work at McDonalds your entire adult life.

        • Dlre

          And there it is!! The correct response! If you want a better paying job with benefits that go with the job, go get it. Nobody is stopping you except yourself and your excuses! I made my way and nobody helped me! But I had desire to better my life and my position on this world. I also worked at McDonald’s for my ‘first’ job to earn enough money to go to school , get an education and get a career . Those who say it’s too hard or just make other excuses about why they can’t better their lives, will always be in low income crappy jobs and complain why the company is not taking care of them. Move on and make your own way. All it takes is time and desire and it Will happen

          • Travis Ruiz

            preach on.. I feel the same way.. and that goes for ppl making less then min wage on the east coast.. bitching abt not getting enough tips to pay rent.. well U chose ur profession relying on tips, regardless, u didn’t pursue to higher education. ur own fault. u don’t hear the handicapped or disabled ppl complaining abt not making enough or not getting by on tips bitching abt their work. nope.. no sir. cos their grateful to be working. as we all should be when the ecnomy is down.

          • P.W.R.

            I like how, with the economy being so hosed that people are taking any job they can get, the assumption is STILL that people work these shit jobs because they never sought education or tried to do better. I am back flipping burgers, and you probably wouldn’t believe how many people I work with that have college, they have experience in other fields, they have management experience, and so on… and yet we still get part-time flipping burgers and fighting to make ends meet on 28 (or fewer) hours a week. Perhaps before we criticize people’s employment in the face of such an overwhelming unemployment, we should worry about fixing the economy a bit and getting the job market to pick up some?

          • tj ruiz

            Well u see there is the difference between staying at a min.wage job relying on tips. And being laid off and going back to that type of work. I’m in no way critizing ppl who have an education and get laid off and go back. That’s what thoses jobs are for. Not to stay and bitch cos u didn’t pursue further education and or didn’t get advancement at that job u wanted.

          • lawdawg541

            A degree in underwater basket weaving doesn’t count as being “educated.”

          • Robin Hood

            A degree is blathering pays better, right hater ?

          • lawdawg541

            Speak it brother!

          • Robin Hood

            Today’s minimum wage doesn’t pay enough, even if you work 20 hours per week during school & 40 hours per week in summer…for tuition.nnnDid you have a point about this century ?

        • Robin Hood

          No one said this is a McDonald’s driven wage increase, either.

      • Mike

        There is no law that requires a company to pay vacation, provide a 401k or allow overtime.

        • mallory

          maybe there should be.

          • http://rwpcs.com rwperkinsjr

            You know how I got my Vacation Pay, company truck, 401K, company house and good income? I busted my @$$ for years and did a good job. I ended up being 5 guys to my boss… it was amazing that I went from 6.00/hr to 18.50/hr with all the perks including a house on 400 acres. nnNow I’m venturing out on my own and starting over. I will do it with brains and hard work, NOT saggy pants and an attitude to the people that pay my f’ing bills!nnHow do you make more money? You get smarter and you work harder! OJT (on the job training) or College. Have respect for your boss, listen to your supervisors, SHOW UP ON TIME, stay late and learn learn learn. If you offer no value to your employer you will always be a minimum wage worker.nnI don’t remember the last time I got my food right from ANY restaurant. $15/hr? Gladly if you EARN it but you don’t. How does McD’s screw up a BigMac? Isn’t that the signature sandwich? My local McD’s does it almost every time.

          • what

            Did you really have to add in saggy pants? What are you to afraid to say nigger? @$

          • http://rwpcs.com rwperkinsjr

            No… I meant saggy pants. All races are wearing their pants that way fool. I am not afraid to use the word nigger, nigger, as a nigger is a lazy and ignorant person of any color, much like yourself and I am not a racist and I wouldn’t use the word in a derogatory manner like you have assumed.nnThe guy I just bought my cigs from is whiter than myself and sags. The guy I bought my last BigMac from was Spanish and sags. All races sag today but I do not see doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, that sag…nnYou are a fool to assume you know how another person thinks. Not all of us have limited intellectual skills like yours or think with the same closed views… @$.

          • Brianna Aubin

            If an employee costs more to hire than they make for the company in revenue, they won’t get hired. Passing laws about how much companies have to pay just ensures that more and more people cross that threshold and get fired.

          • http://kevincdavis.net Kevin Davis

            Boy are you dumb..

        • Travis Ruiz

          exactly!

      • nice guy

        Ok. Off the high horse. Just because initial results show the bill you support, aka $15 a hour isn’t working like you thought you are calling someone a bad person? He is just pointing out the facts Mr. JGSRELP. The fact is the people with the money have the power, even with the $15 per hour they will still have the power. In seattle for instance, most of the poor rent. If the place you rent knows you just got a raise to $15 a hour, What stops them from jacking up your rent. Would this not just put the money directly back in the pockets of the “rich”. My point is the rich will always find a way to bring it back to there pockets. Until you make yourself valuable where you work you will never be successful, and once the government starts meddling in wages it opens the door to socialism. We need to find a way to support workers to excel, to dress for the job you want not the job you have, and give them a fighting chance to survive in the free market. I just don’t think this is the way.

      • Jared Small

        You just do not understand economics. Not one bit.nnnBut at least you talk about “feelings” something you may be qualified to speak on.nnnPlease continue to enlighten us… (sarc)

      • Zach Johnson

        i thought “progressives” were supposed to be tolerant? you always resort to name calling and childish rants.people like you are why i no longer consider myself to be a liberal

      • Mark Antigonos

        and Im glad you are butt-hurt that your liberal ideological methods have been proved wrong once again. The REASON conservatives are against your retarded ideas is that we realize that “evil corporations” are GOING to pass the costs right on down to all of us. They NEVER eat the costs IN THE REAL WORLD!!! nnWe arent against people making more money; we are against FORCING businesses to pay more money- because it ALWAYS ends up being moot when its said and done, and those making the bigger paychecks are now LESS able to afford what they could before. Additionally, EVERYONE else now has more trouble too. nnWith the crappy work ethic and ignorance that runs rampant in our society today- MOST of those making minimum wage were already overpaid BEFORE the raise.nnBut lets not worry about history or facts. You morons just keep thinking that youre living in the world where those great ideas will actually work. Yes, I said “great ideas” and I meant it. Unfortunately, those great ideas can only work in a “great society” that does not, will not, nor ever has existed. nnLiberals be like; “There should be money trees, lets pass a law forcing everyone to grow money trees, then everyone can be rich!”nnConservatives be like; “Money trees would be awesome! It’s really too bad they dont exist!”

      • Patriot_765

        Raise people up with education and training, minimum wage is meant to be a starting point, not forever…

      • LMS

        The main issue with raising the minimum wage to $15 is the negative impact it has for small business owners. Yes large profitable corporations could afford to pay better wages, but our economy also depends on small, local businesses, and as a small business owner myself, that is just unrealistic. I funded my business from my retirement and savings, and started off paying myself much less than $15/hour as I was growing my company. It is unrealistic to expect small businesses to poor their blood sweat and tears into a business and then be required to hire someone and pay them a premium wage while still holding all the risk and responsibility that comes along with owning a company. I want to treat my employees fair and pay them the best I can, but it isn’t realistic to expect that most small businesses can afford to pay a $15 minimum wage and still be a profitable, viable business.

      • Brianna Aubin

        I know this will shock you, but there is no magic way to make human beings more productive by passing a law. The companies who hire these people do it because these peoples’ labor is worth more to them than the money. If they’re suddenly forced to pay these people more, that becomes untrue. The only alternatives they then have are a) cutting costs some other way, or b) letting the people go. These people are probably lucky that the company didn’t go with option B, at that.

  • Ed Perry Green

    You are all breaking my heart. be sure to vote for that dumb ass that put you in that position, real great deal…LOL

  • Ryan

    Although I agree with the ideas created in this article, I question the credibility of it. It sounds too made up. The minimum wage before was not $7/hr, so the waitress could not have made 7 plus tips. Additionally, no thanks to Obamacare, the employee first interviewed would not have lost her healthcare all together. Furthermore, Ed Murray’s plan does make exceptions to business type and size, to be factual. It is still a horrid plan regardless. I would gather this article was fictional in order to point out the shortcomings of the wage increase, which are accurate in theory and to be expected. But I doubt these conversations actually took place based on the inaccurate “facts”.

    • Ian Cook

      Completely agree, this article just smells of B.S.

  • http://rwpcs.com rwperkinsjr

    I guess it doesn’t matter that people have busted their humps to get to a $15/hr wage. They got up, got to work, did a good job and benefited themselves only to have some food workers, that must have a master handle on economics since they didn’t understand that this is exactly what was going to happen, can cry for more money not realizing they are cutting off their noses to spite their own faces and the libs went for it.nnPrices will rise, the study Seattle has released proves that. They do not deny it yet the rest of you do. What the study does not entail is what this story brings to light, the lost benefits. So now they are back to $7/hr or lower after paying for food, parking, health, etc and the prices are higher to cover the wage hike. Seems like they have moved backward to me.nnI read the entire study… maybe others should too and read between the lies. Your prices will rise, the study states that several times throughout and business owner are to raise prices and take less profit to cover it. It makes no logical sense. Numbers are easy and the numbers will tell the truth in the long run.

    • Ian Cook

      Only time will tell. I think you’ll find that this is not the case. Also, the sky isn’t falling.

      • http://rwpcs.com rwperkinsjr

        Have you read the study Seattle released? I don’t think you have. It says, in multiple places, that the wage hike will be covered by increases in prices and lower profits for business owners… point blank.nnAnd I never said the sky was falling, I said your prices are going to go up, the study backs my statement. Good luck attracting any new business if this passes in Seattle. The city will be lucky if companies don’t leave.nnYou folks seem to think this money is coming from thin air, it’s not. What part of 17 TRILLION do you libs NOT understand? You people want to continue to cash hot checks that your bank account can’t cover. I just don’t get it. You seem to have some intelligence between you, but in fact, you do not.

  • Lisa

    I wonder about the validity of this article since the WA state minimum wage is 9.32 currently and there is no “server wage” here, how was that server making only $7 an hour? And with Obamacare health care should be provided.n

    • Ian Cook

      This is one of the most poorly written articles i’ve read in a long time. It’s so bad, I felt a little dirty after reading it. This person and this website should be embarrassed. No journalistic integrity at all. It’s like a handful of conservatives got together who wanted to share their opinions started it and then are trying to pass it of as some sort of factual blog, only sharing evidence that supports their view (very little evidence since this article has no facts to back it up and only a couple of people interviewed and they didn’t even share the people’s names or anything). It’s a bunch of B.S. is what it is.

      • Jared Small

        Ian Cook- “This is one of the most poorly written articles i’ve read in a long time.” Lol >>>> “i’ve” was used in Ian’s criticism of poor writing. nnnGo back and edit your post Mr. Cook.nnn* it is OK to make a mistake, but the irony of yours is too sweet to not have it pointed out. ; – )

        • Ian Cook

          Oh, gosh, I forgot to capitalize the “I” in my post. Wow. You are a genius. Also, you forgot to capitalize the “I” in your sentence “it is OK to make a mistake”, and technically “OK” isn’t a word the correct spelling is “okay”. But, I wasn’t pointing out the grammar mistakes in the article, I was pointing out the factual mistakes for the most part, Mr. Small.

          • Jared Small

            Struck a nerve with you… Makes me happy : – )nnI use Lol and emoticons so I am not sure what your point is??? I am not attempting to act like my poo does not stink (that is basically what you are doing) sooo I could care less about a capitalization or auto correct errors.nnBut you got all huffy. Lol!nnYou are the one bringing up poorly written as a topic and going off- wow so funny and ironic.nnMaybe after grammar class you can study economics. It would help you immensely understand the argument- even if the evidence in this case is anecdotal. But “i” digress.nnso happy you got all bothered

  • Chris T

    First, this is taken from a blog … you can write anything in a blog without scrutiny of truth. Second, read the blog http://www.nwasianweekly.com/2014/05/blog-seatac-tells-us-15-minimum-wage/ … couple bits, “Yes, Iu2019ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less” and “I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation”, seems to be a little off. Tips are not effected by wages and who contributes to a 401K making $10-12/hr? This is not factual by any stretch and certainly didn’t warrant a reprint here as the truth. I worked as a ramp agent for Alaska Airlines from 1988-1992 and was earning a little over $10 at that time I quit. Guess what the average ramp agent salary at SeaTac is 22 years later? $10.57 (http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Ramp-Agent-l-SeaTac,-WA.html). One other thing to note … there was no free lunch and no 401K when I worked there.

    • Ian Cook

      “The internet is filled with lies and deception! Unless there is an article that supports my narrow world view, then I’m totally going to share it as fact!”

    • Jared Small

      Locals who know about 15 an hour may tip less… It is wrong but it can happen. It also made national press.nnnHighly disciplined people will put money into a 401k and they may not be the only income in the household.

  • redc1c4

    unexpectedly!nnreality is funny like that…

  • Debbie

    I LIKE EGGS

  • rams375

    The money sounded good, just like the Washington liquor store vote, the government still will get all the money they want to spend off your back.

  • JGSRELP

    I love reading the over reaction of the “lib” this and communist/lefties/Obama! crowd. LOL This article is so poorly written with little to no facts its actually funny. I mean, they talked to two people at the same business and that is what you are hanging your hat on? Thats why you think raising the minimum wage is bad? so easily swayed I guess.

    • lawdawg541

      What’s actually funny is your room-temperature I.Q.

      • Ian Cook

        Ooooooh Snap!

  • KellyKAFIR

    AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH TOUGH! You commies wanted this crap now live with it until SEATAC becomes Detroit. Revel in the Democrat policies that will be your ruin and remember: Elections have consequences!

  • Never_Speechless

    What a fake article. Total propaganda. Trust me at $7.00 per hour she did NOT have a 401k LOL. Nor did she have health insurance or paid vacations at part time $7.00 an hour. If the person they speak of is real she or he would have been on welfare and food stamps at $7.00 an hour. She would have been forced to sell any 401k she had to get government health care and food stamps. The only people that would fall for such a fake article are republicans mad at the system that they have to pay the pee on employees 15- an hour.

    • bah

      I had a 401k, vacation and benefits at $7 an hour but I worked full time.

      • Never_Speechless

        401k is a matching contribution. Have can you afford to contribute anything when your only making $7. an hour? I know I couldn’t.

        • Jared Small

          A couple of possibilities-nnnSome people are disciplined more than others. (working poor tend to be out of necessity) nnnThey may only put in $50 a month since they eat where they work.nnnMany of these people might be in households with more than one income.

    • Ian Cook

      Yup, it’s such a poorly written article, but i’m not surprised that republicans are eating it up. They love anything that supports their story, even if it’s a bunch of lies.

    • Nathan S.

      To the average reader it appears that there are two stories highlighted here. One is a about the 401k ( a cleaning woman from the link ‘conversations’) and the other is the waitress. The waitress does not speak of having a 401k.nnReading comprehension is your friend.

  • Ian Cook

    This article is clearly biased, and poorly written. It uses anecdotal evidence. There is what, two, maybe three people even interviewed. No statistics, not even names. So it’s basically this “This guy I know talked to these people at the airport, they complained about something, but I can’t really give you specifics”. This is a load of tripe.

  • Orpheus75

    “Yes, hello? This is reality calling. Just thought I’d check in and give you a proper B**** slapping and wake up call. Thank you!”

  • Justin Kover

    Why was the woman interviewed making $7/hr? If it was because she is an immigrant, why did it go to $15/hr? Is it just a typo?

  • Coug821

    Makes the salary I went to college and earned an advanced degree for worth less….my wage isn’t going up?!!!

  • Theresa

    How do you lose your 401k, that is just not possible? Even if – and this is a big if- the company decided to discontinue their 401k plan, it applies to everyone in the company, not just whoever management picks and chooses. For a 401k to work for highly compensated employees, they must have participation from lower paid staff. In any event, any monies already there is yours to rollover to another retirement plan or IRA. It doesn’t just disappear. And why would tips be lower as a result of her increased salary? There is no connection to what people tip and what your boss pays you. And you can’t lose your health insurance now with Obamacare, especially in Washington state. Even if the hotel suddenly takes away health insurance from all employees (which is pretty unlikely) you are able to immediately enroll under ACA special enrollment guidelines. This whole story is pretty implausible.

    • ChuckfromTacoma

      The employees were able to role their vested portions of the 401k to IRA’s or other legal tools. The company no long offers a 401k and no longer makes contributions, matching or otherwise. nI have always left a tip for housekeepers. I no longer do. They get paid well and the room rates have gone up. We use to tip 20% to wait staff. At SeaTac, we now tip maybe 10% for good service, maybe nothing for average.nThe reality is we no longer stay or eat in Seatac. We just eat at home or in Federal Way. No more 13 Coins or 3day, 2 night Marriott week-ends.nMany people have been moved from good personal health policies to government plans with substantially higher co-pays and deductibles. That one has yet to effect my household.nWe will see at the end of the year what the costs of health insurance adjust up to because of the additional expenses the insurance companies incur.nnI am waiting to hear how much more the state and municipal employees insurance costs and what they are doing or going to do to make up for that additional expense to tax payers.

  • James Brown

    Two major fallacies seem to be perpetuated in the arguments here. First, is that companies just have the money to pay their employees what ever they want. Not true. Walmart only operates on a 3% profit margin. My company only operates on a 10% profit margin after pay roll, taxes, rent etc. So when payroll cost go up they have to be paid from some where. In our case California increased the minimum wage so we were saddled with the choice of employing less people or going out of business. We chose to lay off two employees. nSecond fallacy is companies can simply increase prices to cover the cost of employees. Price is set by supply and demand not cost. If I raise my prices too much people simply don’t go on trips. In the case of SeaTac travelers don’t want to pay $25 for a burger so they bring a sack lunch when they fly. When I fly out of SeaTac I stay in the hotel in Tacoma because it is reasonably priced and has a free shuttle. n nIf you can’t afford the new payroll law and fewer customers are willing to pay increased prices then the cost have to come from somewhere. Sorry SeaTac workers. You should have seen that one coming.

  • Glenn Coggeshell

    THIS IS ALL TO PUSH IN A ONE WAGE SYSTEM..

  • Theospeak1

    The real minimum wage is $0. The city of SeaTac didn’t adopt a $15 minimum wage, they adopted a $15 arbitrary, government imposed price floor. Because of that arbitrary floor, more people are now being forced into the ~true~ minimum wage of 0$ per hour.

  • Rick

    Aaaand the law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. It seldom seems to occur to politicians, especially liberal ones, that they can’t simply wish away the laws of economics with which they disagree. A lesson they never seem to learn.

  • ray

    The 15$ min wage just shows the mentality of this new gimme gimme gimme i want i want i want generation that doesnt work for anything…you morons would rather spend all your time and effort to make minimum wage $15hr instead of being an american and working hard to learn a trade or skill that makes your work worth 15$ an hour and that is pathetic you are basically admitting to yourself that you will never be better than or worth more than a minimum wage job so instead of trying to force your socialist agenda on us good hard working class who have done something with ourselves to deserve a decent wage and go learn how to EARN! your $15hr. Like the rest of us making that much or more.

    • RayDumb

      Ahhhh ??? The minimum wage GOES TO WORKERS!!! What a moron,

  • Mike

    Americans have no idea what communism or socialism is. Not surprising considering the education or lack thereof regarding such topics.

    • Lamont_Madison

      eSPECAILLY IGNORNANT IN THE BIG WEST COAST CITIES LIKE SEATTLE, PORTLAND, SAN FRAN, LA!

  • Max

    Wait, why is she getting paid less in tips now – that doesn’t make any sense?

    • thomaspainelives

      Because prices are higher and customers know they get 15 bucks an hour.

  • getrid of Obama

    Think how much better off you were 10 years ago before you voted in Obama as President. Now you hare having to pay for it everytime you turn around.

  • Terri

    This article is nothing but he said she said!! I call bs on it! I have never met a waitress who made the regular minimum wage, only the wait wage. Heck I could write a story like this and say that he said he saw Ryan and Cruz on their knees at the Koch machine. Does that make it true!

  • LoonyLovelyLuna

    Gun-loving liberal right here…. Socialism is a direct result of a capitalist society deciding that the chasm between the haves and have nots is too huge and the have nots decide they should take over to distribute the wealth of money and things evenly through the people, democratically (usually, but not always, so don’t crawl up my ass about it – Ever thought the “little people” should take over the country to try and redistribute wealth evenly, for the betterment of everyone? Yeah? Congrats! You’re a socialist!) and communism is where everyone should be equal and centralized planning is used to make sure that everyone has a house, a car, food and 2.5 children (or whatever the limits are set to). There are no classes in a communistic society. Well, in a perfect world there isn’t, anyway….nnSo, as you can see, there is a HUGE difference between Socialism and Communism. Perhaps everyone should stop fighting with each other and work together to make our country and society one that is once again looked to as a good example of what to aspire to… not a country that is the butt of jokes in most other countries because of the way the government is and the way we seem to just bend over and take it…nnWhy the fuck does it matter if I’m a Liberal and someone else is a Conservative? As I stated before, I am gun loving – I believe that the right to own and bear arms should never be taken away. I also believe in capital punishment for severe crimes. Does THAT sound like a Liberal to you? I also believe that abortion should be legal, even though I’m against it personally. I believe that if the government would try to do things RIGHT instead of doing things to make MONEY our socialist healthcare system (and it IS a Socialist healthcare system, so pipe the fuck down) would work, really work. nnSo, get the fuck off your high horses…. Democrats are no better than Republicans are no better than Tea Partiers are no better than Independents… NO ONE is better than anyone else! Everyone’s shit stinks! We need to quit fighting each other and fight the people that deserve it – the politicians in office!

  • Tara

    All I can say is well no s**t.

  • cdc

    At eighteen, minimum wage in my area was about $2.80 per hour – less for waitresses. We couldn’t live on it, so we moved in with roommates and rented cheap mobile homes. And got some education and better jobs. But still, they raised the minimum wage! Yay! … except – the rent and all the prices went up. So they raised it again… and the rent and all the prices went up…so they raised it again… but the rent and all the pries went up…so they…nnIf $15 per hour is going to “solve” the problem, why not make minimum wage $25? Or $30? Or $175?

    • ShaneJohns

      Because when you’re dealing with FIAT, the only number that makes any sense is the % of the total economic pie. When the money is not pegged to anything, then it can only be pegged to itself. So $25 will likely become necessary at some time. So will $175. These are just meaningless digits in the final analysis. nnThe problem comes when people such as yourself insist on treating the USD as though it was still backed with something like Gold. nnAnd before I go, here’s a thought experiment for you to consider:nnConsider FIAT Country A — only $1trillion in debt, but with minimum wage at $0.15 per hour. nnConsider FIAT Country B — $16 trillion in debt, but with minimum wage at $15/hour.nnWhich country is more in debt?

  • damionblackthorn

    Socialism, Communism, Marxism…they’re all failed political agenda’s…failed in every country and throughout all of history….it’s great until you run out of everyone else’s money…and usually ends up will millions of dead citizens…killed by their own government….yep, it’s truly great…but, there is always some people who want to tell everyone else how to live……nothing has changed…..$15 minimum wage sounds good..is a job destroyer…and will be proven to be so..won’t take long…..

  • Roger Cotton

    No matter how many times reality bites liberals in their asses, they refuse to acknowledge it, or learn from it.nnInstead, they troll comments sections, spewing their idiocy.

  • Mikhail Ramirez

    This is so fake……. a catering staff making $7 wage before the $15 increase. WA min. Wage was 9.32 before the raise. FAKEEEEEEE

    • Dan

      Does that include jobs that make tips? In my state at least the minimum wage for tip earners was half of the ‘regular’ minimum wage.

      • Mikhail Ramirez

        WA state doesnt do that. Servers make min. Wage and tips.

  • cfred

    Such research! A survey of two people! Let’s write an article about it!

  • MadSpinmuse

    Minimum wage has remained the same since I was 21. All these years while prices have gone up on everything & the cost of living skyrocketing, the minimum wage has never moved since! I was 21 over 30 years ago. Why is it so difficult for people to get paid the $15 minimum wage? Good question. If we were paid a decent minimum wage, the money would be pumped right back into the economy. Where is the money? In the pockets of the crazy rich with hoarding disorder who want you to believe that they deserve all that money and you don’t. We all deserve a living wage. It’s not about socialism. Or inexperienced workers. Or whatever you want to try to make fun of. It simply is about getting the greedy wealthy to put the money back into our economy so it will work right.

    • Cheap seats

      If the money literally “went into the pockets of the crazy rich” (or under a mattress), I’d agree with you it would negatively affect the economy. nnnThe reality is that most will place it into a bank, buy something, or invest in something. Unless I’m missing something here, doesn’t that get “pumped back into the economy”? Doesn’t that allow money to be lent?

      • Lamont_Madison

        MOST WILL SPEND IT ON HIGHER PRICES. MANY OTHERS WILL NEVER GET IT AS THEY LOSES HOURS OR THEIR JOB – – DUH – DO YOU LIBERALS EVER READ ANYTHING?????? NOT IN SEATTLE – TOO BUSY FINDING YOUR NEXT GAY PARTNER!

    • angie

      I don’t know where you live, but I live in the United States of America, and the 30 years ago, when I began working at 16, the national minimum wage was $3.15. Today, it’s $7.25. That is the NATIONAL minimum wage. So I am not sure why you think it is the same as it was over 30 years ago. It has doubled.

  • Bruce Fidler

    You didn’t see this comming? EVERYUTHING goes up with the min. wage! Always has! You’re given a false raise to $15 an hour, and the cost of food, gas,etc. goes right up to cover the new expense. That’s the way the ecomics works – or not. You better get ready for $15 dollar bread.

  • Sammie Jo

    I’m so broken up by this, all I can say is……………..nWE TOLD YOU SO!!! LOL

  • Zazspo Rabbit

    Typically, these proposals are made to buy votes. The people who propose them (usually professional politicians/lawyers) don’t think out the long range consequences for two reasons. First: most don’t understand since they are professional politicians and have no clue how a free enterprise economic system works. Second: most of them don’t care as long as they hold office.

    • therealzircon

      You nit the nail on the head, squarely.

  • Brianna Aubin

    u201cIt sounds good, but itu2019s not good,u201dn n nYES, EXACTLY!!! That’s what all us evil right-wing radicals who hate nthe poor have been trying to TELL you!!! At that, you’re probably luckyn you still have jobs.

  • lolwut

    Considering this propaganda article neither gives a name of a worker, nor what place they work at, I highly doubt that this is even factual. nnIts not even legal to cut someones 401k like that……nnTypical Fox News style reporting. Say something is happening, give zero sources to back it up, let idiot republicans root around in the bullshit.

    • DJones1964

      All the company has to do is turn all expenses of the 401k back to the employees. It isn’t free, your employer covers that cost for you, for free. Nothing says they have to. There is no law forcing them. Now these employees can continue their 401k plan just at their own expense and not at the employers who is now grossly overpaying an employee. There is give and take in everything. You can’t just keep taking without giving somewhere, somehow. It is impossible.

    • Lamont_Madison

      LOWCUT – YOUR COMMENTS IS TYPICAL OF AN IGNORANT STUID LIBERAL. ENJOY SEATTLE, AND GO TELL YOUR BOSS THAT HE CAN’T CUT ANYTHING FROM YOU. SEEE HOW LONG YOU LAST DUMBASS!

  • New Vegas Resident

    I love hearing about the negative consequences of stupid policy. Whats next liberal politicians? Businesses having to provide matching 401k’s, free parking and free meals?

  • Joseph

    Every time someone starts organizing a dramatic change in minimum wages, people warn: Beware, those higher wages will cost you. Lost jobs, lost perks, and lost opportunities for advancement. And every time, those people wind up being right. If there is to be something called a minimum wage, it needs to apply to everyone (it doesn’tu2014ask the disabled how it’s legal to pay them $.70 an hour) and it ought to be indexed to inflation. Anything else is politicsu2014a way to try and force Peter to pay Paul for Paul’s vote. And if you think that’s scummy, you should see the offer the other guy is making Peter at Paul’s expenseu2026nnnThe sooner people figure out that the political game is corrupt and broken, and that the real criminals CAN be held accountable the sooner you’ll actually see growth and advancement again. But as long as the two sides can play the class warfare game and laugh all the way to the bank, nothing changes.

  • Jason

    u201cYes, Iu2019ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,u201d – Why? How does the min wage make her tips less?

    • Raffi256

      People tip less cause they know everyone is already getting a “living wage”.

    • daroofa

      I’m guessing menu prices went up, leaving less for a tip.

  • Lamont_Madison

    Every time I read about Seattle, makes me pleased that I left the area 2 years ago. If I wanted to live in HAVANNA, I’d HAVE MOVED TO CUBA. SEATTLE SUCKS!

  • therain

    Duh.

  • qhawkeye

    So what your saying is the company decided to punish its work force for paying them a living wage? No reason for them to lose the previous benefits they enjoyed.

    • http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/ keyboard jockey

      Business isn’t charity. An employer is in business to make a profit not provide a public service, make work -that’s what the government does. The short fall from higher hourly wages has to be made up somewhere. The smart thing for the employers to do would have been to automate every job they could, and reduce labor force to offset the high cost of hourly wages for low skilled labor. Given they didn’t automate but kept employees, those employees should understand they will price themselves out of their low skilled wage paying job. They already made the employer reduce his overhead by canceling employee benefits.

  • Al Fischer

    $15.00 per hour in Florida that’s great money to make & will help family’s have a better life but its all a dream @ this point

  • Dick

    be careful about what you ask for….. you just might get it.

  • ZZMike

    “u201cNo more free food,u201d she added.nnnBut she’s got all that money coming in – which she probably voted for.

  • David Pawson

    Poor babies, getting what they asked for.

  • Ryan Gardner

    It is hilarious how many of you commented on Matt Haskins’s list of socialist programs, calling him names and making smartass, condescending remarks towards him because you think that he said that those weren’t socialist programs. You completely missed the obvious point of his post, or you can’t comprehend it. The beginning of his post was obviously sarcastic, but even if you couldn’t detect that, he was nice enough to say “oh wait…” at the very end, indicating that he was making fun of people that think socialism is always a bad thing, in every situation.

  • TronSheridan

    And who didn’t see this coming? Anyone? Bueller?

  • bearkat0501

    I can see the problem. Minimum wage was only raised to $15 an hour. Why not just raise it to $100 an hour and be done with it? $100 an hour for everyone! There… that will solve the problem.

  • U Dontknowmelikedat

    Why would her tips change? Something smells rotten with this story.

    • Schaef21

      Somebody’s making $15.00 an hour they don’t need a tip from me.

  • http://www.thevirtualcabin.com/ gdnctr

    Idiots. You’re getting what you wanted and voted for. Why stop at $15/hr? Raise it to $75/hr, morons!

  • egalitarian

    What a nonsensical, under researched, agenda-pushing piece of bad journalism. The author is clearly anti-equality and fair pay and completely ignores the fact that the problem here is not that a living wage was set, but that the company reacted like a small child throwing it’s toys out of the pram and withdrew every perk the employees had had before. That is clearly NOT the intention of anyone setting a minimum wage. Added to that, most employees on mimum wage don’t enjoy these sort of perks to begin with and I’m sure a fast food worker currently on $8 would bring their own lunch for the benefit of earning up to $56 dollars more per day! These companies measure their profits in millions and billions. .they can well afford it!

    • rweb82

      Actually, most of the fast food chains are individually-owned franchises that do not make huge profits, as you would suggest. You must not confuse an individual McDonalds franchise with the corporation- as their means to profitability are vastly different. Also, “fair pay” should be identified as comparable to the work required. And as such, a burger flipper at a fast food restaurant surely does not deserve $15/hr. By raising the minimum wage to $15/hr, SeaTac has effectively made it impossible for teenagers to learn how to earn money, and develop a real work ethic. These jobs are now going to go to over-educated, over-skilled workers who can bring more to the table- yet still not earn what they are likely qualified to earn. nnnThe sad truth is that by raising the minimum wage, you are losing a demographic in the workforce that needs these types of opportunities in order to develop the necessary skills and drive it takes to be successful. You are killing the future workforce of America. In addition, you are not fixing the problem. You are merely putting a bandaid over a gaping wound. If we had a government that knew how economics works, then there would be true job creation; and those over-skilled workers would now be able to have jobs that pay at their skill level, and would not have to settle for work as a burger flipper. nnnLastly, minimum wage jobs were never designed to provide a living. They are meant for teenagers and low-skilled workers to earn supplemental income, or transition between jobs.

    • cassandra777

      Only large national corporations make millions and billions, LOL.nSmall and medium sized businesses can’t afford it, so they cut benefits and raise prices. It’s to be expected. It will happen in Seattle as well, and some small businesses will relocate or go under.

  • Jimmy

    great article based entirely on anecdotal evidence (sarcasm)

  • rdt410

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction – hard for the libtards to see the big picture when they’re going through life with blinders on.

  • Jeffrey9167

    If I owned a fast food Joint in Seattle, I would automate everything from the ordering to the cookng to the serving.

    • Robin Hood

      If you owned a bar of soap, you’d be able to bathe…when it rains, right “library guy” ?

      • Jeffrey9167

        Do you always think about guys showering?

        • LMAO!

          When you’re out in public making a spectacle, folks notice. perv.

  • Jeffrey9167

    I was talking to some co-workers today. Apparently Obama had pretty much given up accomplishing anything in his 2nd term. He is playing a lot more golf and inviting a lot more Hollywood stars to the WH for entertaining. He also knows that he is losing the senate. He’s lost his will to fight and his staff is exhausted as well.

  • Jeffrey9167

    Apparently soldier that Obama trader the 5 Taliban leaders for hates this country and intentionally deserted his post. He even forgot how to speak English. Amazing!

  • Jeffrey9167

    Sarah palin 2016!

  • Stryder51

    Can’t say they weren’t warned.

  • the machinist

    Next time the people that want more money have an idea. Go get educated and get more money dont just expect a hand out!n

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/obrecords Benji Beats

    Labels don’t do much more than give people a reason to disagree.

  • IndyfromAZ

    Well, would you like all the illegal aliens who are bellyaching down here in AZ? We don’t want them. (because we are “raci*sts after all)–Sarcasm. I’m sure they’d be happier up there. :)

    • msueh

      No, thanks. We already have a surfeit of illegals in WA.

  • howard_feinski

    Silly article. Flimsy reasons. Politically biased. (But I am against minimum wage. Go figure. )

  • fresh_bound

    I don’t understand why she was only being paid $7 before the hike when Washington’s minimum wage has been $9.32 for quite some time..

  • tbak105secure

    .

  • Craig Chapman

    Okay…I think this is definitely government overreaching, but why would *tips* from patrons be impacted by a minimum wage hike? Let’s keep it real people.

    • ValleyObserver1

      Because if the cost of goods go up, the consumer has less discretionary money to spend. So they will either spend less which will impact tips since they are figured as a percentage or they will just tip as a lesser percent.

      • Craig Chapman

        I’m sorry, but that argument doesn’t hold water. A tip is a gratuity; generally a percentage of the total tab. If I get a $100 meal and I think the server has done an exceptional job, I tip him/her $20 – $15 for an “okay” job.

        Tipping for drinks at the bar are a buck each.

        I’m not sitting there doing a calculus of what the server/bartender is earning apart from what I’m providing as a gratuity – it’s not any of my business. I honestly don’t think anyone else does that, either.

    • Erthwjim

      How else would a company pay for a wage increase?

      • Craig Chapman

        Companies don’t pay tips. Patrons do…directly to the server. No connection, period. You must not eat out very much…or for that matter, tip.

        • Erthwjim

          Let’s look at this, prices of goods will go up to pay for increase in minimum wage, because of this people will either eat the same with their budget and then pay for the food with what they would have used to make the tip bigger or eat less to tip the same. Say 20 dollars allotted to a meal including tip, now meals cost a little bit more, but person still can only afford 20 bucks, so instead of say a 5 dollar tip and a 15 dollar meal, they now pay 16 dollars to the meal and 4 dollars to the tip. Or the other choice is, they still pay 15 dollars for the meal but 15 dollars of food isn’t the same as it was before price increases, so they eat less, so the tip stays at 5 dollar. I believe more people will choose to cut back on the tip rather than cut back on what they would eat. This is why tips would be affected. Company pays the wages but in order to pay an increase in wages, the money has to come from somewhere, one of those choices is an increase in prices, which could lead to a decrease in tips because of the above scenario, or another scenario people just might stop eating out because the cost of their meals has gone up just enough for them to decide they’d rather save the $20 then spend it, so less people to give tips possibly as well. This is for people on budgets that are concerned about where their money goes, for people that eat out a lot (IE work reimburses or they have the money to spare), this probably won’t affect them too much.

          • Craig Chapman

            So okay. By your logic, an increase in the cost of goods to a restaurant which would likewise lead to an increase in price, would similarly lead to a decrease in tips. This transforms your fundamental argument into: “an increase in price makes people into bad patrons.”

            Sorry. That doesn’t add up either literally or figuratively. There are customary guidelines in the service industry when it comes to tiping that go something like this: http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tipping/

            Percetnage guidelines have been in place for decades. Price is irrelevant.

          • Erthwjim

            Guidelines, not regulations, meaning people choose to follow it if they can. People on budgets, those with limited amounts of money that they can spend in a month, are going to be less likely to follow those guidelines. If someone has only 20 dollars that they’ve allotted themselves for a meal, including tip, because that’s what they can afford, a change in prices isn’t going to change the fact that they can only afford to pay 20 dollars for a meal.

          • Craig Chapman

            So you’re essentially confirming my assessment of your argument: that any price increase at a restaurant becomes an excuse to short-change the server.

          • Erthwjim

            It’s called a budget, people with little money live on it. Perhaps you don’t budget what you spend or perhaps you have the extra money to spend, but not everyone does. The bottom line is, SeaTac people are getting a wage increase, other places aren’t. And if someone has limited income (they’re students, they’re poor, they’re unemployed, they just bought a car or house, etc), they want to make their money last as long as possible, and maximize what they can get from it. Unfortunately that doesn’t include making room for the server. You keep inferring that this means they’re cheap, and that they’re somehow wrong for not wanting to tip the server the same amount of money that they did before, but they have a limited budget, they want to receive the same amount of food they did before, they want to maximize what they get for their 20 dollars, and that doesn’t include tipping the server, it’s not an excuse for them, it’s a valid reason. People that make excuses for tipping less were making excuses before the minimum wage was increased, now they just have another excuse they can use, but they’re not the reason tips are decreasing overall.

            In addition to this, because servers wages have increased, you do have the crowd of people that will tip less because they feel the service has now been included in the costs of good. This is actually how servers are paid in many parts of Europe, the wages of the servers are high enough that tips aren’t needed to compensate for a lack of wages since those wages are all paid for by the price of the food, and that’s why foreigners are known to be bad tippers. If you want you can say these people are making excuses to tip less, fine, but that’s the direction things are going. The higher the wages, the less people will feel like tipping because the service becomes a part of the price of the food.

  • pissed off at the 1%

    employers need to take the hit, not everyone else… can we start suits against unfair labor practices

    • bapdco

      Did you seriously just say that??? What a maroon!!

  • Roger Zelinski

    I work with tons of businesses in Seatac. The biggest issue I have heard about thus far is that employers are swamped with job applicants. Lower skilled minority labor is being slowly replaced with higher skill people with good English skills. Also overtime is curtailed, some businesses are planning to leave, and tips are way, way down. Honestly, if you are going to pay an extra $6 just to eat a meal in Seatac… people will naturally take that out of the tip and not feel guilty because the minimum wage is high.

    • Robin Hood

      Well, if you work with fat folks, I absolutely “un-derstand”.nnSo, your waitress ONLY does a single table, per hour ?nnLMAO !nnnIf I had your IQ, I’d argue the side I disagreed with… You’re pointless.

      • Erthwjim

        I’m sorry you didn’t address any of what he said, in fact what you said was absolutely pointless. How about making some logical arguments instead of making ad hominem attacks.

        • Robin Hood

          You didn’t address the topic at all & I don’t dance to requests, from “story teller” twits…

          People cut back on tips ?? Heck, do people have names ??

          LMAO !

          I just left 33%, so I guess you’re wrong, right ?

          • Erthwjim

            Let’s consider this, how will a company compensate for an increase in wage while maintaining the same profit? Companies need to make a profit, how else would they expand their business or the product they offer. They also need to maintain a profit for those times when business isn’t doing as well, because what happens when a month isn’t as profitable? So they have choices, increase prices or lay off workers. An increase in prices without an increase in the quality of service is going to mean a decrease in tips, because when someone is paying more and the quality doesn’t increase, is the tip going to remain the same? No because now where someone might have tipped 25% on a 30 dollar meal (37.50 total) now has say a 35 dollar meal with and you think they’re still going to tip 25%? A person may end up instead tipping 20% or 15%, because they still can only afford under 40 dollars. You may tip 33% but perhaps that’s because you can afford it, not everyone can, and anecdotal evidence doesn’t count when it comes to this anyways.

          • Robin Hood

            Let’s consider this…. If a business cannot pay a living wage, F them. As for your made up numbers, I tipped 33%, so KMA !!!

            Seems your parents must have been retarded, I guess the apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree bro.

          • Erthwjim

            So a small business that operates on a small profit margin, barely
            scraping by, has no place in the corporate world? I see how it is, you
            just want all the big companies to continue existing while the small
            companies go out of business. And I didn’t say you made up numbers, I
            said anecdotal evidence doesn’t count, in other words in the world of
            statistics and research your own personal experiences can’t be used, you need scientific evidence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence). You
            may tip 33% but perhaps you just want the rich people that can afford
            such tips eating out all the time, screw the ones that have a limited
            budget, they should cut back on what they eat even though food prices go
            up, just so they can afford to tip 33%.

            But it would seem your skills at debating always result in you throwing out ad hominem attacks, because attacking the person is easier for you then actually bringing up counter points to someone’s arguments. But you know I guess that’s what your ilk does, you’d fit right in with my good friend Ben Dover Kuntz, just another internet troll.

          • Robin Hood

            So, if you make up stories, I’m a troll ??

            Sure, that’s debate….HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA !!

            Seems the folks against it, are making record profits, since they have several new restaurants & a poster here make $100k paying his workers a pittance…

          • FreeDumb

            You nailed the basement dweller. Crawled up, raided the fridge & told you they want free service., free food, & that’s free-dumb.

          • Erthwjim

            You apparently can’t read what I said can you? I’m not arguing for free, I’m saying increasing minimum wage is not a good thing and will results in lost tips and probably increased prices. How is that asking for free? Robin Hood here thinks people should make living wages. I haven’t said anything one way or the other about the wages except as it regards tips. But I feel that minimum wage needs no increase and some jobs should just not be desirable, so they should be under minimum wage.

          • Gamer DUMB

            Been a minimum wage since the 1930, so you’re an idiot & a moron. You said the workers should be underpaid, to benefit cheap folks? As for the tips, that’s for service, but be sure & ask the staff to beg for shekels…

          • Erthwjim

            Yes perhaps I worded that wrong, minimum wage does not need to be living wages. Given the current min wage in SeaTac, I think it should not have been raised and wages should have stayed at the amount they were, which would be under the current min wage. Before the minimum wage increase, what jobs made 15/hour? Ones that probably required a little more work and skill. Now what’s the incentive to work another job that pays the same wage but will require more skill and more work? None, but those people that are working those types of jobs will have a better chance of getting the 20 dollar an hour job than the ones that are getting paid 15/hour for minimum wage work.

          • Gamer DUMB

            Hey bud,

            I feel you’re not able to discuss with facts &…”How about making some logical arguments”.

          • Erthwjim

            Hmm, not only do you upvote your own comments, but now you feel the need to comment as a guest?

          • Robin Hood

            Hmmmm ? You don’t up vote (2 words) your comments, because they’re crap & make moronic accusations you cannot prove ???

            LMAO !

            I get it, you’re using real ID, right ??

            LMAO !

            Too stupid to answer anymore…

          • Erthwjim

            I don’t upvote my own comments because I’m not a narcissist. Also here you go: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/upvote

          • Robin Hood

            Up vote is 2 words, perhaps you’ve heard ?

            I see how you’re off topic, in fact what you said was absolutely pointless. How about making some logical arguments instead of making ad hominem attacks.

            LMAO !

            Too EZ ! Try another link attempt, that one was epic fail, like your birth.

            PS- My up votes…irritate childish control freaks, so I’m happy to oblige….

            LMFAO !

          • Erthwjim

            If it makes you feel better about yourself, continue to upvote yourself. Me, I don’t need to vote for myself, I have enough votes without my own help.

            Also look at your own profile on disqus, hover your mouse over the upvotes you’ve received and notice how they spell the word.

          • Robin Hood

            I see you’ve denigrated to nonsense….

            DISQUS is all caps on this page, too. Was there an “intelligent” point, you’re attempting ?

            Oh right, blathering nonsense without any intelligence…. to attempt “saving face”, (palm to forehead) !!

            Can you spell IQ in 5 minutes ? Try. I vote whenever it’s offered, unlike the Palin inbreeds.

            Too much dope…. DOPE !

          • Erthwjim

            Actually Disqus is just one capital letter, Disqus, Inc. The logo is where they use all caps. There are several places you can check this from the settings button you’ll see “Add Disqus to site” or you can view it on their about page or even if you look up the company profile on Wikipedia. My spelling without a capital letter was laziness I’ll admit, but upvote is still an acceptable form of the word, no matter how often you try to correct it.

          • Robin Hood

            So, is up-vote & up-voting, since DISQUS allows it !

            LMAO !

            Did you have an intelligent point, troll ?

            LMFAO !!

            I’m sorry, you didn’t address the topic at all, in fact what you said was absolutely pointless. How about making some logical arguments instead of making ad hominem attacks.

          • Erthwjim

            But again, Disqus spells it upvote, they don’t spell it up-vote on their site now do they? Check the What’s New section, it’s spell upvote in their a few times. Up-vote may also be an acceptable form of the word and that’s fine, Disqus doesn’t choose to use that form of the word and I never said up-vote wasn’t acceptable, nor did I say up vote as two words was wrong, all I’ve said is upvote is not incorrectly used.

          • lawdawg541

            I can prove it Pat M. Costello. Your IP address and VPN Identifier show that Erthwjim is exactly correct. You are some kind of freak. And you carried people’s mail for 31 years? Scary…

          • Robin Hood

            I can’t imagine, making claims you cannot prove, stalking, & libeling people.

            Guess, losing your business & manhood was too much, huh little “man” ?

            Now, use more predictably shrill and inaccurate hate speech

            *********************Andy Wood*************************, the kind that CPS will take interest in…..

            Keep in mind, playing games will lead to a LOSER !!!!

            LMAO !

            Guess, that’s you by default, due to the furnace filter “business” ???

          • lawdawg541

            Nice! A little checking of this freaks history shows one disturbed individual. He uses numerous monikers (Robin Hood, Gamer DUMB, Free DUMB, Poor Woody, Nazi Capitalist, and a plethora of others) and then “likes” his own comments. I have even seen some instances where he replies to himself and then likes the reply!!! I can’t even imagine the amount empty space between this guys ears…

          • Robin Hood

            I can’t imagine, making claims you cannot prove, stalking, & libeling people.

            Guess, losing your business & manhood was too much, huh little “man” ?

            Now, use more hate speech Andy Wood, the kind that CPS will take interest in…..

          • Erthwjim

            That’s why I believe he’s also the user Ben Dover Kuntz, https://disqus.com/home/user/bendoverkuntz

            Unfortunately Ben has his comments private, but you’d see a similar trend between the two, both upvote their own comments and they both use LMAO a lot.

          • Losers

            Do you stalk folks, because your arguments are weak?

            That’s what a loser would do, right? No other explanation for your interests, unless you’re a couple gay dudes looking to hook up!

          • Poor baby

            I can’t imagine being a sick stalker. Look into cyber stalking laws, you might as well start getting familiar now.

          • Robin Hood

            If you could accurately predict the future, you’re wasted here…

            PS- You haven’t said anything intelligent, that wasn’t said about slavery in the South.

            DISMISSED !

          • Robin Hood

            Fools that want free, from the other guy are usually mommies’ boys & catered to from birth….

            Now, I’m you and you’re me, because they’re so stupid, how could they contemplate folks disagree. In fact, the law passed !!!

            YA HOO !!!!!

            Now, we can feel like decent people, rather than slave owners when we dine out !!

          • Erthwjim

            I’m not saying the government should pay the employees, I’m saying a minimum wage increase is not a good thing. A minimum wage increase results in an increase in prices or a decrease in the number of employees, because minimum wage increases don’t increase the amount of business that frequents an establishment. And for companies that operate at a very small profit margin, the small businesses in the world, they won’t be able to afford the minimum wage increases as easily as larger companies with larger profit margins, so they’re the ones that are more likely to lay people off or increase prices in order to continue to operate. You’re the one that indicates people should make a living minimum wage, I’m saying these are the possible consequences, the tip one being one that this article seems to backup. You say folks are making record profits, so where are your links? And a poster here said he made 100k, again that falls under anecdotal evidence, you can’t take the experience of one person and extrapolate it to everyone, just like your 33% tip, most people aren’t going to tip that much.

            And I’m making stories up now? How so? If someone can afford 40 dollars for a meal, an increase in price isn’t going to make it so they can now afford more, they can still only pay forty dollars, so their choices are eat the same and pay more for what they eat which will then be taken out of the tip or eat less so they can stay under 40 dollars with whatever their tip is when it’s added to the total cost of the meal. Or third choice, they may just forgo eating at a restaurant completely. There’s no made up stories here, I’m just giving you scenarios, here are the possible choices a person has when they have a limited budget. I could increase or decrease the 40 based on a person’s budget, the 40 number might be made up, but that’s just being used to illustrate my point, not everyone has the same budget, but most people have limited budgets. Or maybe that’s the issue, you don’t believe people operate on a budget?

            And I’m a gamer, what’s your point? Would you dismiss someone if they were a movie buff or enjoyed racing cars?

            But beyond that, you have almost 7500 comments on Disqus alone, you’re right, I shouldn’t have compared you to Ben, he only has around 2000 comments, you’re at a whole different level.

          • Robin Hood

            So, you love your mommies’ basement, because it reminds you of her womb ???

            Classless to put words in another person’s post & proves your point is pitiful, fool.

            HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHahahhahahahahHHAHHAAHAHhahahahahahHHAHHAHAhhaahahahahaHHAHAHAHA !

          • Robin Hood

            So, you’ve decided they DESERVE the same profit margins ??? WHY ??? Why do they NEED to expand, but the workers NEED to suffer ???

            As for evidence… Make up numbers = EVIDENCE, right ??

            As for all your blather, paying folks a living wage produces a better worker, but you clearly aren’t mature enough to manage money or a houisehold.

          • Erthwjim

            Expansion = more jobs, but if you’re ok with less jobs, I can understand that.

          • Robin Hood

            More money to spend for everyone = more business…. but if you’re ok with less jobs/business, I can understand that.

            expansion = more money for the elite, which you wanted to avoid earlier, when I tipped 33%.

          • Robin Hood

            Anecdotal evidence doesn’t count, but make up numbers & fine dining are required ???

            Sure would love to see that rule book, in fact I insist on it !!!

          • Erthwjim

            Anecdotal = personal experiences or other people’s experiences.. I’m giving you basic Mathematics, if budget = x and cost of food =y with tip = z then y + z must be less than X. If y increases, in order to stay under X, z must decrease. You’re right that’s not evidence, that’s math. X can be replaced by anything Y varies based on the restaurant and Z varies with Y. But they all must be less than X. X is something a person decides on.

          • Robin Hood

            Budgets change, just like minimum wages did…

            You really have entirely no point & are simply slathering BS on a page… .

            What an embarrassment to intelligence.

            Make up rules, it’s moronic…but.

          • Erthwjim

            You’re right budgets change. But when food prices go up and someone’s salary doesn’t, their budget isn’t going to increase with the price increase, they will make adjustments to stay within their budget, whether that means buying food at the grocery store more often, buying less food when they go to a restaurant or paying a smaller tip.

          • Robin Hood

            So, you’re saying inflation exists ?? FASCINATING !?? Did you “stumble” on this yourself ??

            When you “stumble” on something intelligent, treat it gentle…It’s in a strange place.

            Guess, people will adjust & Seattle & San Francisco are doing great, while paying the highest minimum wages…

            PS- LOVE your run on sentence, really impressive POS / work.

          • Erthwjim

            And increases in wages results in increases in food prices, which brings us full circle to a decrease in tips or a decrease in business since people’s budgets might not change with those increased prices. Min wage 15/hour forces inflation. Also gently

          • Robin Hood

            So, you’re saying the food is grown in Seattle ???

            HILARIOUS !!

            Tell another JOKE !!! Guess summer gas prices reflect a wage increase, huh ??

            CHORTLE !!

          • Erthwjim

            How will companies pay for an increase in wages then? What can a company do when they are forced to pay an employee 6 dollars an hour more per hour? I wonder where that money will come from.

          • Erthwjim

            Here’s your evidence from the Congressional Budget Office: “According to conventional economic analysis, increasing the minimum wage reduces employment in two ways. First, higher wages increase the cost to employers of producing goods and services. The employers pass some of those increased costs on to consumers in the form of higher prices, and those higher prices, in turn, lead the consumers to purchase fewer of the goods and services. The employers consequently produce fewer goods and services, so they hire fewer workers. That is known as a scale effect… ”

            So increased wages result in increased prices which result in fewer goods and services being purchased. And a tip is someone paying for a service, so given the above that would mean a decrease in tips. In addition because of this and something known as the substitution effect, people would lose jobs, mostly low wage earners, the very people it’s supposed to help. And the CBO was only speaking of an increase from 7 to 10, Seatac`s is a higher percentage than that.

          • Robin Hood

            Amusing, the CBO said jobs could be lost & it could be ZERO on up…. LMAO!

            Try harder to defend economic slavery, but use something better than stale Civil War blathering….

            In particular, I need you to explain why the “common man” needs a human subsidy to “fine dine”, with a Maitre D, wine steward, & bartender ….

            NOT limited budget folks, fool… Just cheap m’fers….

            FYI, you lost, & the workers won, son.

          • Erthwjim

            Oh, did I forget to mention, the CBO said that if minimum wage went from 7 to 10 dollars an hour, 500 thousand to 1 million jobs would be lost around the country. And this was based on information this year. I can see how the workers would win with this.

            Also, no one said wine stewards, they’re just stewards, AKA dishwashers and bussers. The wine person at a restaurant is called a Sommelier. And again, the Maitre D is just someone who welcomes guests at the front of the house and then takes them to their seats. Sometimes they’re the head waiter, sometimes they’re the host or hostess. Except the Sommelier, these positions can be found at Red Robin and last I checked, Red Robin wasn’t considered a fancy restaurant.

            But since you ignore what the congressional budget office said (basic economics), call people cheap when they can’t afford an increases in goods and services, and think common restaurant positions are actually only found in fancy dining, we’re done. It’s no use arguing with someone like you.

          • Robin Hood

            One funny part of watching journalists cover the minimum wage debate
            is that they often have to try and referee cutting-edge econometric
            debates. Some studies, notably those lead by UMass Amherst economist Arin Dube,
            argue that there are no adverse employment effects from small increases
            in the minimum wage. Other studies, notably those lead by University of
            California Irvine economist David Neumark, argue there is an adverse effect. Whatever can we conclude?

            But instead of diving into that controversy, let’s take a look at
            where these economists, and all the other researchers investigating the
            minimum wage, do agree: They all tend to think that raising the minimum
            wage would reduce poverty. That’s the conclusion of a major new paper by
            Dube, titled “Minimum Wages and the Distribution of Family Incomes.”

            Let’s first highlight the major results. Dube uses the latest in
            minimum-wage statistics and finds a negative relationship between the
            minimum wage and poverty. Specifically, raising the minimum wage 10
            percent (say from $7.25 to near $8) would reduce the number of people
            living in poverty 2.4 percent. (For those who thrive on jargon, the
            minimum wage has an “elasticity” of -0.24 when it comes to poverty
            reduction.)

            Using this as an estimate, raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour,
            as many Democrats are proposing in 2014, would reduce the number of
            people living in poverty by 4.6 million. It would also boost the incomes
            of those at the 10th percentile by $1,700. That’s a significant
            increase in the quality of life for our worst off that doesn’t require
            the government to tax and spend a single additional dollar. And, given
            that this policy is self-enforcing with virtually no administrative
            costs while challenging the employer’s market power, it is a powerful
            complement to the rest of the policies the government uses to boost the
            living standards of the worst off, including the Earned Income Tax
            Credit, food stamps, Medicaid, etc.

            A higher minimum wage will lead to a
            significant boost in incomes for the worst off in the bottom 30th
            percent of income, while having no impact on the median household.

          • Erthwjim

            First let me attribute this for you: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/04/economists-agree-raising-the-minimum-wage-reduces-poverty/

            2nd, the author works for Roosevelt Institute, a liberal leaning think tank, CBO is non partisan

            Here’s CBO’s full paper, which pulls from many studies as well: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45138-MinimumWageTestimony.pdf

            With the Q&A from the Senators clarifying some things: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45391-QFR-MinimumWage.pdf

            Here’s the study the WAPO article keeps pointing to: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15038936/Dube_MinimumWagesFamilyIncomes.pdf
            And here’s a study that occurred afterwards that shows the opposite: http://econweb.tamu.edu/jmeer/Meer_West_Minimum_Wage.pdf

            So yes there are 2 sides to every argument, the CBO paper tries not to pick sides and leaves it up to policy makers to decide if the risks outweigh the benefits.

          • Robin Hood

            Well, since you’ve lied repeatedly, I see no point in you….

            “It’s no use arguing with someone like you.”

            And since the raise has never been done, it’s ONLY agreed a raise helps poverty, son….

            Poor loser & worse liar.

            PS- I’m another poster on a gamer board, huh ??

            FAIL !!!!

            LMAO !

          • Robin Hood

            As with any such estimates, however, the actual losses could be smaller or larger…

            CBO

            Funny, I learned when you quote, you DO NOT cherry pick or omit pertinent data, unless you’re DISHONEST !!!

            As for dishwashers being stewards.

            The definition of a steward is an employee who is charge of the management of a very big house or a person who is responsible for the food and drink staff at a restaurant.The definition of a steward is an employee who distributes food and drinks.

            Steward is defined as to manage the affairs of a big household staff or the service employees who are serving food and wine.

            HAHHAAHAHAHA

            AGAIN, I need you to explain why the “common man” needs a human subsidy to “fine dine”, with a Maitre D, wine steward, & bartender ….. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA !!

          • Robin Hood

            NOPE, another lie… Getting tired, lying “guy”.

            Amusing, the CBO said jobs could be lost & it could be ZERO on up…. LMAO!

            Try harder to defend economic slavery, but use something better than stale Civil War blathering….

            In particular, I need you to explain why the “common man” needs a human
            subsidy to “fine dine”, with a Maitre D, wine steward, & bartender
            ….

            NOT limited budget folks, fool… Just cheap m’fers….

            FYI, you lost, & the workers won, son.

          • Robin Hood

            Guy you “defended” –

            I work with tons of businesses in Seatac….

            So you tell me….”…anecdotal evidence doesn’t count when it comes to this anyways.” ??

            Could you be any more moronically/ironically partisan ???

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!! 12 year old minds belong on video games, child.

        • Bagger BS

          He addresses the $6 per hour, which meant the waitress or waiter would only do one table per hour. After that obvious logic flaw, the poster had the same personal crapola you decried, dummy! Must have learned the ad hom off toilet paper, right ?

          • Erthwjim

            I said what he said was pointless, that’s not an ad hom attack, him commenting about the guys IQ was the ad hom attack he made.

          • Gamer DUMB

            You said, “…you didn’t address any of what he said”, which was a bald faced lie, moron… Look UP!

          • Erthwjim

            He didn’t address it, because waiters and waitresses aren’t the only employees at a restaurant.

        • Robin Hood

          So, your waitress ONLY does a single table, per hour ?

          Read it again…SLOWLY !!!!

          • Erthwjim

            A restaurant has more than just waiters, there’s also the Maitre D, the stewards, the cooks, bartenders, etc. Not all of them were making 15/hour before, so they all get the min wage increase. So it’s a 6 dollar an hour wage increase at a minimum, add in everyone else and you might be getting 20 dollars an hours of increased pay per hour, maybe more. Can that be a 6 dollar increase in food? Possibly, but even if it were just a 3 dollar increase in price for the whole bill, that’s 3 dollars a patron didn’t have to pay before. That’s 3 dollars that might not go to the tip now.

          • Robin Hood

            I like made up stories….. Not so much your moronic “premise”, everyone deserves to dine fancy, while the working staff suffers……

            Earlier you said “screw the ones that have a limited budget”, but now they “deserve a Maitre D & a bartender ???

            LMAO !

            DISMISSED !!!!

            LMAO !

          • Erthwjim

            The screw the people with limited budgets is what you are saying when you expect people with a limited budget to still tip the same percentage when the price of the menu has gone up. And restaurants, the Maitre D is the host or hostess, which restaurants where you tip generally have a host or hostess, they’re the people that sit you at your table and pass you onto the wait staff. It doesn’t need to be a fancy dining thing to have a host or hostess. You don’t tip them, they take a portion of the tip that the wait staff receives. Maitre D is just one of the terms used for that position.

          • Robin Hood

            LMAO !

            Walking back comments, like Maitre D & bartender is a sign you’ve lost.

            FYI, you lost, & the workers won, son.

          • Erthwjim

            Seems the workers are losing according to this article, and not walking back comments, I just realize that a restaurant isn’t only waiters and waitresses.

          • Robin Hood

            Awwwww ? So, this blogged article is your bible, huh ???

            Come on, the site is biased & that was really REALLY WEAK !!!

            LMAO !

            Yeah, you walked back comments & you’re “attempting” it again….

          • lawdawg541

            Make a formal complaint about this clown…er Santa, at NORPAC-SANTAS.ORG
            Tell them Pat Costello, Mr. “Cheap F@ck”, shouldn’t be around children…ever.

          • Robin Hood

            Why Andy Wood, because you’re willing to libel folks ?? Pretty amusing, you’ve become a stalker & are trying to damage a professional reputation …

            Get a life & job, because I want you to miss work, when I sue you !!

            LMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            Nice edit job, haha. I told you it was too late Santa, I have all your foul-mouth comments archived. Just doing a little searching to find out who hires fat slob Santa’s and give them a little sample of Pottymouth Santa’s work. Already started with Macy’s. Onward and upward…

          • Robin Hood

            Looks like libel to me & you crossed the line with the pedo comment, so carry on… I get vacation & you pay me.

            Like I said, any lawyer will represent me & you’ve lost. Too stupid to read the internet stalker statute ??

            A person is guilty of cyber-stalking if he or she, with intent to
            harass, intimidate, torment, or embarrass any other person, and under
            circumstances not constituting telephone harassment, makes an electronic
            communication to such other person or a third party:

            Already guilty, BUD !~! Wonder why your business TANKED, couldn’t be the loose NUT !!!

            LMAO !

          • lawdawg541

            Fatso, I have forgotten more about the law than you claim to know. The only embarassing things have come from your sausage fingers, you complete moron, so you gonna sue yourself? I am only making your pathetic and vuglar comments available to people who might not otherwise know the real Pat M. Costello, AKA Pottymouth Santa. You are seriously the most pathetic retard I have ever seen on the internet, and it’s Seattle so the competition is stiff. Now please, do something good for your life, like getting your cholesterol checked….

          • Robin Hood

            Another post to save….

            Yep, you’re forgotten more & killed a business…

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAH !!!

          • Robin Hood

            If Dennis gets a complaint, I’ll happily sue you, stalker…

            My personal life is none of your business & the courts take libel seriously.

            LMAO !

            Nice car, does it get decent mileage ???

          • Robin Hood

            Pretty amusing, according to your “plan”, those very workers are denied their “right” to dine where they serve….

            Why not make them mandatory minorities, since you’re happy with their 2nd class status ???

        • Robin Hood

          Logical arguments ??

          Can I borrow yours’ & say I “feel” folks should be able to work 40 hours & prosper ??

          To Bolerjack and other clergy, it’s common sense.

          There are 93,474 people in the Seattle-Bellevue-Tacoma metropolitan
          area who work but still fall below the federal poverty guidelines,
          according to the U.S. Census, a 3 percent increase since 2005.

          When families don’t make enough money to survive, “There’s such a
          ripple effect right down to the kids,’’ Bolerjack said. “They end up
          living in stress-filled homes because the parents aren’t able to cope. I
          see so many parents at the end of their rope, just trying to cope, to
          hold things together.’’

  • IndyfromAZ

    According to Erin Shannon, Director of WPCu2019s Center for Small Business, this proves that a higher minimum wage is fundamentally flawed.nnu201cContrary to what supporters claim, increasing the minimum wage does nnot create jobs and stimulate the economy,u201d Shannon writes. u201cThe higher nwages are not free money. The increased costn must either be absorbed by the employer, which is impossible for many nwho already operate on shoe-string profit margins, or it must be passed non to workers, in the form of reduced hours and benefits, and consumers,n in the form of higher prices. Either way, someone pays.u201dnnThe Daily Signal reports that an airport parking service, Masterpark, isn now implementing a u201cliving wage tax,u201d resulting in an estimated 8.25 npercent fee on top of their regular parking fare. The added charge is printed on customer receipts.

  • Aaron Richardson

    Seattle wanted it, now they have it. Be careful of what you wish for.

  • Nom Nons

    Businesses lashing out against workers doesn’t prove anything except for the moral depravity of profit-seekers.

  • Reno

    That’s retaliation on the part of management, and should be legally actionable..

    • therealzircon

      The company’s can’t absorb that kind of increase and stay in business. Ones that try to pass the entire increase onto their customers through higher bills for services won’t survive either – the customers will go somewhere else. This is not retaliation, it’s survival. Welcome to the real world. There are NO free lunches in the world.

  • Anon

    When I see stuff like this I get steamed. If a single previous benefit gets cut then they ought to keep raising the wage. If yu don’t provide lunch and parking it is $20.00 an hour. I bet these are all Reptard businesses anyway, no progressive democrat business would stupe so low.

  • SamuelThomas

    Typical Lib mentality. They cannot see the forest for the trees. It must be blissful to be a brain dead liberal.

  • Robert

    People, let’s get back to the article. Businesses will find way to cut costs and be profitable if mandates are imposed upon them. Another thing that no one realizes is that if minimum wage workers go from $8.50 to $15 an hour they no longer will qualify for medicaid, and go uninsured or buy their own and pay their own co-pays deductibles and premiums.

  • Robert

    When I flew into SeaTac and rented a car I was amazed at how much added on taxes and fees they put on the bill. Its just a different culture out there of higher taxes, green living, and more solidarity. I think a national minimum wage increase would have lots of unintended consequences. Low income workers who pay no federal income taxes or actually have negative tax liabilities because of earned income credit won’t see their huge tax return checks anymore. I see workers at my company who with raises and promotions who no longer qualify for medicaid on their children and no longer qualify for government assistance programs see raises as actually a net loss. I tell them “welcome to the middle class.”

  • djallyn

    Here is the one thing that NOBODY seems to talk about in this minimum wage thing — it might raise the minimum wage, but it also raises the number of PEOPLE who earn minimum wage.

    How?

    For those people who were earning over the minimum wage but under $15.01 an hour are now considered to be “minimum wage workers”. Many of these people — especially in the $14 – $15 range are actually skilled workers who have seen THEIR wages stagnant for almost a decade now. The average wage of a hotel engineer in the Seattle area is around $12 an hour. A Chief Engineer in a hotel is around $15. These are skilled positions requiring extensive knowledge in several trades, such as plumbing, electrical, HVAC, welding, construction, and structure. Now they too have become “minimum wage” workers, because the employer is going to pay for the minimum wage increases on the backs of their more skilled employees by not giving THEM any raise in wages.

    So great, now the underpaid (and yes, most were grossly underpaid when compared to the area cost of living) workers can temporarily earn a better wage. But now you have increased the number of people who earn that minimum wage, and will actually increase the cost of living because of that.

    I have said time and again, wages should be tied to the CPI. A person earning a minimum wage should be able to make enough to provide a roof over their head, food on the table, clothing, and transportation. THAT should be the baseline on wages. As the expertise for a job increases, so too should the wage paid for that expertise — and it should be an agreement between the employee and the employer as to whether that wage is sufficient. But all wages should be tied to the CPI when it comes to raises. If the cost of living increases by a certain percentage point, then too should the wages increase by that same percentage. If the cost of living drops, then so too should the wage.

  • Zach Thorpe

    yeah, you commentors are aware that this article is un-fact-checkable right? and quite frankly it sounds made up as it is filled with the generic predictions of antiminimum wagers.

    perhaps if the article said something that could be objectively verified i would be like “whoa”, but it clearly lacks details, substance, and is so short and uninformative that it seems like a paid ad more than anything.

  • gmh6419

    A reporter for the Asian Weekly (REALLY?) talked to 2 (TWO PEOPLE – REALLY?) and that is the whole basis for a negative anti union, anti minimum wage hike, pro-GOP, “micro” article. What a waste of time. No wonder there is no author’s name attached. f’n jokers

  • Sean

    So she is mad because she now has to PAY for things she uses? Wow sounds like a horrible life. Why should employees who do not use the parking have to pay for those that do? Why should a meal be free when I can make my own for far cheaper and actually have it be healthy. Alos the idea that working overtime got her more is just ludicrous. If she worked 60 hours per week at $10 and hour, and now she is limited to 40 hours she comes out AHEAD since she has made the same money in FORTY hours She saved herself TIME. Time is the one thing that is equal for all. Bill Gates and a homeless man all have 168 hours in their week. Of course if she wants to get a second job and work those 20 hours, she would come out WAY ahead.
    I doubt that MOST of the people who got the increase are unhappy, anecdotal information is what conservatives take as fact.

  • Zukey Badtouch

    You spoke to two people, if we can even believe that… and from those two individuals you have deduced that the entire community has a “deep sense of regret” about the increase. You are … not a journalist.

  • surprise surprise

    You mean the hotel owned by one of the most vocal opponents to the wage increase unnecessarily cut his employees’ benefits before announcing an expensive building extension to that very same hotel that’s going to supposedly be losing business? That’s shocking.

  • Jim Mace

    Hmmmmmmm odd that all other reports on this tell a very very very different story. You don’t think that this story could just be made up to get people to sign THE FREAKING PETITION AGAINST THE $15 MINIMUM WAGE do ya??? Conservatives are freaking sheep who will always do what is in the interest of the rich, and what is not in their own interest.

  • Charles Earp

    This article is so not biased. Not at all.

  • Phil Davenport

    OMG, Looking at the comments here, it’s clear that WA liberals are complete idiots. Headlines are intended to summarize the content of an article. The article covers the opinions of two workers who are now worse off because of GREEDONOMICS, with both being 100% disillusioned by the wage hike because of the trade-offs that both they and others like them are suffering. How could you title the article in any way OTHER than how it was titled?

  • Cliff

    Ah yes… interview a handful of workers at one single solitary business as evidence for what is happening in a community of over 25,000 people. That is some solid reporting.

  • Dan Smith

    70% of the economy is based on consumer spending. Giving more money to consumers instead of CEO’s and the 1%, will stimulate the economy. Its time to redistribute the wealth. That doesn’t have to be a socialist thing.
    Capitalism was alive and well in the 50’s and 60’s but the United States GINI index number was much lower than today which means wealth was distributed from the middle class outward instead of the trickle down crap that happens today. There is no reason we can’t enjoy capitalism responsibly.

  • Vic R

    It is generally understood by the left that the more damage they do to our economy the more people will depend on them for services and welfare needs. The more dependent, the more unlikely they are to ever vote for a party that will take those benefits away even if they hate their party simply because they have no idea anymore how to rise out of poverty on their own two feet. Do not be surprised at these acts of economic terror, it is in the design fabric of the left. When the right screams loud, they know they have hit their mark squarely between the eyes. Social Engineering at its best designed to keep the rich democrats in power.