Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has claimed its first casualty… and the union-driven, completely arbitrary policy has yet to be implemented. Cascade Designs, an outdoor recreational gear manufacturing company, announced it is moving 100 jobs (20% of the workforce) later this year from Seattle to a new plant it is leasing near Reno, Nevada.
Cascade Designs “manufactures MSR camping stoves, Platypus hydration packs, SeaLine dry bags, and Therma-A-Rest sleeping pads — hundreds of products made by workers in Seattle.” The company has offered some employees positions in Reno, but others must reapply.
Founder John Burroughs and son David Burroughs (Vice Chair) said that Seattle’s $15 minimum wage “nudged them into action.” Burroughs wants to keep production in the United States, though the company does have a plant in Ireland. Burroughs said Seattle’s new minimum wage would “eventually add up to a few million dollars a year.”
The need to expand—an expensive prospect in Seattle—added to Cascade Designs’ decision to move.
Cascade Designs isn’t the only casualty of the $15 minimum wage, and it won’t be the last based on experiences elsewhere. In November, San Francisco joined Seattle in passing a $15 minimum wage and the consequences are real. Last week, Borderlands Books, a locally owned bookstore in San Francisco, announced that it would close shop by March 31. After being in business for 18 years, the small business owner said voters’ approval of a $15 minimum wage was the “straw that will finally break his small company’s back.” The Washington Policy Center,
Borderlands Books acknowledges “the major effects of increasing the minimum wage won’t be felt for while,” and the store could prolong the inevitable and continue to stay in business for a bit longer. But the minimum wage increased from $10.74 to $11.05 this year, with another increase to $12.25 scheduled on May 1; no corresponding increase in income means the store will slowly become less and less profitable and will be forced to expend its cash assets. In other words, the store will save more money by closing its doors now.
Abbot’s Cellar and Luna Park, popular locally owned restaurants, have already made the difficult decision to close their doors. The small business owners blamed San Francisco’s wage hike as a factor in their decision. The San Francisco Eater, a local publication following the city’s restaurant scene, predicts that the impact of the $15 minimum is “likely to be repeated by many restaurants that shutter or reformat this year.”
Not like we didn’t see this coming from a few hundred miles away…!
Some of us saw that coming but the liberal socialist never saw it coming they were thinking they are sticking to the man. Obviously it is firing back.
Actually.. they knew that this could happen..lol obviously you don’t have your facts straight.
The leaders of that movement foresaw it and didn’t care..like it’s an acceptable loss. And it’s not an acceptable loss. But those people out voted many and got what they wanted. Now we all must live with this until one day people make another change. Maybe one day some one with intelligence will come up with a way to help everyone on both sides of this. And to fix our obvious economic issues. Which this is an extent of.
Thanks for the correction, now I know, hahah. Imagine if the REP did a move similar tio that and failed, the Liberal Socialists would not accept the failure and blame the REP for the failed policy.
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Right now the wounded Liberal Socialists are leaking their wounds and blame the failure on the wealthy.
It’s “licking their wounds”. Sorry. I had to.
Thanks.
And actually I would say they didn’t care truly but it’s more they decided to accept that type of loss In the name of a chance for a possible better wage.
Go bite a snake sandwich. It hasn’t even been implemented and they are just looking for a scapegoat. People like you sit with baited breath no matter how wrong you are.
Thanks for the insult, but I have thick skin, not like you that is so thin it will break easily.
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It hasn’t been implemented yet. The keyword “yet” is the answer that it will happen in the future.
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You are contradicting yourself and don’t realize it. As far for this comment that you made “People like you sit[sic] with baited breath no matter how wrong you are.” Your comment just slapped your face and you did not realize it.
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You need to go to a corner as the rest of the liberal socialists and leak your wounds for the flawed policy. If this flawed policy was an idea of a REP you would set all involved on fire. Don’t tell that is not true.
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You sound like a hateful bitter person. Are you anti-military as well, just curious.
Well said, Ben Franklin.
Funny, you’re the one spewing vitriol and hyperbole, not to mention your wholly eroneous representation of reality (usually referred to as a blatant lie).
Wow Johnny 5, you are using big words. Did you just learned them? You are talking out of your anus. Prove me wrong!
I think it’s funny that you misspelled “erroneous.” LOL You erroneous erroneously. LOL. No malice intended — just a bit of humor. Everyone makes errors…
Why would he leak his wounds?
It is too bad your brain is as functional as your skin. >:(
I told you insults don’t bother me. People that insult others are compensating for something that lacks in their lives.
I like your thinking and you are on spot with it all. Nice to hear from a good patriot of our beloved USA
I just have a quick question, Benji, and I’m not joking or being sarcastic — I’m serious. Is English your native language?
Who is Benji?
Which group do you fall under?
Division in America in groups:
1. Racial warfare
2. Class of society warfare
3. Religion vs. Atheism warfare
4. Democrats warfare
5. Republicans warfare
6. Gay vs. Breeders warfare
Do you know who is responsible in creating these groups? See numbers 4 and 5.
You might want to study up on the founding of the democrat party, its ties to the kkk, its ties to Margaret Sanger, planned parenthood, etc.
Ok, I knew that, but our liberal countryman believe that was the past now the conservatives are racist.
I personally don’t trust neither party due to the fact they are not working for us but the wealthy. I don’t fall under the 89% herd whom are brainwashed to follow their respective party. The 89% bicker, label, demonize each other, but don’t realize that both sides are destroying our society. We have been divided in 5 groups.
Since I don’t associate and conform to neither one, but the liberals claim that I am a racist right wing. I just don’t get it.
I explain to time to time to everyone that I am for the constitution and I am the 10% whom are self reliant, believe in personal responsibility and We the People are the one that rule our government not the wealthy politicians of both sides of the isle .
Bated* You shouldn’t try and use grown up words if you don’t have the capacity.
*Baited you idiot!
*bated. Google it.
Lol, seriously? That’s some funny shit right there. Here, let me help you…www.dictionary.com, knock yourself out cupcake.
Are you really that much of a dope? COMMON SENSE, man! Find it. Hunt it. You obviously need a dictionary to know what the term means.
It hasn’t been implemented yet, but contrary to liberal abilities, businesses know how to do math.
What was it one Seattle board member said, something like “There should be no unintended consequences.”
Feel as good as you want about legislation, the effect is the effect.
In a sense the council meme dr was right – no unintended consequences. Politicians know what they are doing. They aren’t dumb, they just assume we are. They know that someone can oppose Obama and not be racist, but they say that for morons.
In this case, they probably had all of the figures run and knew what the consequences would be. They also knew they could demonize those that left.
In the end, they know that many union wages are indexed to the minimum wage and this would give the unions a wage increase as well. Again, no unintended consequences.
The average left wing voter may be a moron and that is their choice, but to say that those in charge don’t know what they are doing? No. Hence, there have been no unintended consequences. The ends (happy unions) justify the lost job means. Those aren’t union jobs leaving. At least not now….
If you could read, which if your an adult a min wage is questionable, they did what’s called a ‘cost analysis’ and realized staying in business required more sales, which seemed unlikely, or deplete cash reserves, and the latter made more sense. If you ever ran a business you would understand this.
Do you run a business?
He is self employed, every month he gets his welfare check from the government. Tax free…
Not tax free.
Yes, tax free. They don’t pay taxes on welfare received it should be treated like income. Don’t you pay taxes when collecting unemployment? Same concept they both are benefits one we contribute to it and the other is just free money, no need to pay contribution, no sweat necessary.
It is tax free for the recipient. The recipient don’t contribute taxes
So…if you were paying a local kid to mow your yard for 7 bucks and hour and he started charging you 15 dollars, you would just pay it? You wouldn’t consider hiring someone else or even doing it, yourself.
If you even paused to consider your alternatives, you’ve just proven what a hippocrate you really are.
what the hell is a hippo crate?
Good one! It should have said “hypocrite”.
And to think that I used to get straight A’s in school…
A crate for a dead hippo?
I’ve never paid any kid $7/hr to mow my lawn, most because I never paid by the hour, it was flat fee. It hasn’t been $7 for a long time, and it didn’t take an hour to mow my lawy.
It hasnt been implemented YET….and those companies arent bankrupt YET….they are just looking ahead at the consequences, its what business owners do….something the leftwing politicians dont want to talk about…and hope their voters never bother to ask.
So, if you were living on the coast of Florida, and saw a hurricane coming in the distance, but it hadn’t hit shore YET, would you wait until it DID hit before taking appropriate action? Given you are most likely a dumb college puke who has had his whole life paid for by mommy and daddy, you have no idea of what I an referring to.
Stick your head back in the sand!!
hasn’t been implemented yet”
If you own a business, you need to plan more than a few weeks or months into the future.
If you know you will have a legislated-in labor cost increase next year, you have choices. Increased costs don’t increase sales. Increasing prices to compensate for increased costs tends to reduce sales. Assuming you are using all available economies already, the only way left to offset a labor cost increase is to reduce the number of employees or reduce employee hours. If that causes you to have to reduce production in a thriving market segment, and you can escape the labor cost increase by moving operations, you have to consider that as a plan.
The labor movement, by forcing increased wages and offering no compensating benefit to business owners drove most American manufacturing out of the “rust belt” and into the “sun belt “and eventually offshore altogether. You can’t move an iron mine out of the country, but you can shut it down, forcing people who use steel to buy steel mined and produced elsewhere. The parallels should be obvious. There will be less jobs available in areas where government arbitrarily increases labor costs. Why can’t liberals ever learn how the law of supply and demand works no matter how many times they do things that should teach them the lesson?
They are responding preemptively as there is no reason to wait.The law is coming and they don’t have to take it in the land of the free.
Nobody waits until its implemented to plan for the future.
Scapegoating?
For what?
Stupid post void of substance.
That’s the thing, businesses have to project out 1,2, and 5 years at budgeting. When they know these increases are coming they need to act, if that means moving then so be it, if that means closing and preserving what assets they have left, that has to be done as well. This the reality when you hike minimum wages so rapidly.
Fortunately liberal socialists are a rare breed in this country.
Funny that the restaurants are actually doing better. This article isn’t accurate to the actual reality we’re seeing.
Nor is the perceived success. Here is why. the only increase of the budget of the company has been in payroll. Stock, supplies, utilities have not had an increase because this is not a nation wide hike. They have been able to maintain how much they are paying for these consumables. Now, stay with me on this. IF the cost of these consumables increases across the board the business will start to loose money and then shut their doors if they can not make a profit at that location. Considering that most experts in the field of finance are projecting that there will only be “maybe” a $.25 increase on product you have to look at that. This translates to it cost a dollar more for a four item McMeal (you had to have the apple pie), supply orders for your business cost $25 more for every 100 items needed, utilities will go up, rent goes up (500 dollar rent now is $750), etc… All these costs are spread out and increase with the payroll. A business is operating for one reason and one reason only (despite what their mission statement say) to make profit. IF a business can not make a profit they close. This is basic economics. Liberals seem to not understand this.
A better solution to the problem of lifting the bottom tier is to cap the top off. Say for example that a business may only pay their CEO’s 200% of what their lowest paid employee makes.
All a min wage increase will do, in this case,is people who yesterday made $15/hour (who worked years to improve themselves) are now in a job that is min wage. Unless they are given a Cost of living raise you have added thousands of families to the lower class and shrunk the middle class by the same number.
You’re the first ones in this particular thread to actually show a good head on your shoulders in regards to economic. Kudos.
Now, I agree that putting on a cap would be *much* more effective then raising the minimum wage. The only real difficulty I see in doing that, however, is in the fact that there would be difficulty in *passing* said law. Most lobbyists work for the wealthy, and they’re not about to cut their own throats. Similarly, most politicians lean on lobbyists for their campaign financing, and they’re not about to cut their own throats for it. For that to change, we’d have to elect people who refuse corporate finanicing, but that’s require getting people informed, which requires media strength to inform them. That’s not going to happen because those media companies are run by very wealthy CEO’s, thus bringing us into a catch-22 situation. I agree with your idea, I just don’t see how we could make it happen.
That said, minimum wage does serve as a method of equalizing the playing field a little, and favors small businesses. Yes, that could be hurt by rising prices if said businesses are living that close to the collapse of their profit margin. However, there’s one huge advantage that small businesses have compared to large businesses when it comes to a raised minimum wage: the owners themselves. In a public corporation, the owners produce no product for the company. They just siphon off profit and that’s it. Simiarly, CEOs provide no direct profit & product, only direction. In a small businesses, the owner usually directly creates product as well, and the businesses usually receives their labor for “free”. If a small business has ten employees, that owner is a 10% increase to productivity. Even if the CEO rolled up his sleeves and started doing *real* work, in a 10K employee business, he’d only make a .01% difference. As far as the balance scale between rich and poor, this tips things away from extreme favor for the rich, and closer to a respectable balance. This causes a downward movement of the median of liquid and solid assets, a situation in which small businesses generally thrive.
Imagine an extreme scenario. Say instead of just $15, lets raise the minimum wage to something everyone could agree was a prohibitive increase. Lets consider what would happen if we raised the minimum wage to $1,000,000 per minute while simultaneously outlawing fractional reserve lending and not printing any more money so we can ignore inflationary forces.
Okay, first off… most corporations would collapse outright. They’d be dead in the water, no chance of paying their employees. No corporation would be able to pay the most recent paycheck, they’d all go bankrupt (let’s just ignore the boost from the corporations being liquidated to pay what they can of the employees’ salaries, as with that kind of flux, for our big picture, it doesn’t really matter who has the money when it all goes down, just that someone has it). Similarly, most small businesses would meet a similar fate. In essence, this event has outlawed employment.
The only surviving businesses would be small mom & pop shops. Literally the ones that are run by a mom & pop who are both partners in ownership, as well as sole proprietorships without employees and the self employed. At this point, for those that have money, the only ones who they can buy from are the mom & pop shops and the family farms (who, being the only businesses open, will be swamped with business.) These mom & pop shops will be completely unable to expand due to the high cost of taking on new employees, so they’ll hit their capacity and just stay there. They may raise their prices (in fact, they’d be silly not to). They’ll quickly become some of the wealthiest people in town.
As self-run businesses have such high demand, it’d be really easy to start your own businesses. It’d be only a short time before everyone was trying it in some form or another. And without competition from big corporations or having to waste time and effort on a hiring process and advertising having an obvious cap (no point drawing in more customers than you can supply), new start ups will have a very easy time making it in the marketplace. As this wealth is spread out more evenly among those producing than in the previous system (the cap still existing of “how much can you personally produce?”) local money would stay more local. Shopping outside of the U.S. would also be prohibitive, as forgein companies would still have to pay local shippers. Without passing the law, the U.S. has been turned into an export-only country that only buys made-in-America (outbound shipments would not be as frequent due to ships with US papers all being small family boats instead of huge tankers).
With everything happening locally, and not nearly as much shipping, gas demand plummets and our reliance of foreign oil decreases. Local home solutions become more common (solar power and windmills would skyrocket in demand).
At this point, you’d begin to see apprenticeships re-emerge (especially since universities are now gone) as well as the rise of independent teachers. To pull in a little extra money beyond their cap, you’d have people coming in to learn a person’s trade, and selling their own wares off of it, getting people thinking business early on and being economically smart. And the people taking apprentices won’t care about loss of business, there’s more than enough demand, and they get a little free labor boosting their own profits.
So, in the end, the result of raising the minimum wage as high as you can is small town values, local economy boost, buying made-in-America, decrease of reliance on foreign oil, and everyone being able to be successfully self employeed, meaning only those who are lazy are unable to make enough money.
Now, you scale it back down to reasonable prices, that’s still what you’re doing, just proportionately less.
what many people do not realize, because of the short sighted “this will help” mentality, is that for every $1.00 you increase min wage you add $40 to your budgeted payroll. Now, there is nothing wrong with people thinking “oh, man what I could do with that extra money”. Only there isn’t going to be extra money. IF a small business of 20 employees has a $1.00 increase to min wage that translates to $800 more a week that has to go to payroll or if you want to look at it on a yearly that is an additional $41,600 to cover that $1.00 min wage increase. So, even if a small business isn’t living close to collapse most are not able to survive that without some way to counter it. Which, is why you will see lay offs, increase of prices, or businesses closing their doors.
Keeping that in mind the $15.00 an hour min wage is about $7.85 increase. This is just basic mathematics. you are looking at an additional $314 a person, or $6280 for your staff of twenty which is at about 326,560 a year. This is just to cover the increase from $7.15 to $15.00. Mind you we are only dealing with the “small business” of twenty people.
Now, lets consider this as well. Once the market stabilizes and you have managed to not get laid off, your employer not automated you are not any better off than you were before the min wage increase because the new poverty level will be at about $25,000 or less. Historically when min wage has increased there has never been a cost of living allowance that follows suit. So, this means that everyone who is making $15.00 an hour now (some of these jobs take 2 and 4 year degrees) are now thrust into the poverty level and your lower class has risen dramatically, shrinking your middle class and bringing those who are making over $15 an hour that much closer to the lower class. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying one person is better than the other person due to what job they have, but illustrating the short shortsightedness that the proponents if this increase have and are not wanting to discuss. So, far the only answer I get from people who are going to be be effected by an increase in wage is “if your employer doesn’t give you an increase they are a bad employer” or “it is pretty shallow for someone to think their job and wage is more important then the poor making a living wage.” Do we see the hypocrisy of this?? They are advocating making a living wage by raising min wage which is moving the starting line up the field to include more people. Even if someone is part of a union, those contracts are only negotiated once a year and given the examples of math above you really think larger corporations will be able to soak that sort of revenue in payroll?
I think it was during the Reagan administration that some of the business controls were removed. It really isn’t going to be hard to show the lobbyist that, many are seeing it now anyhow, that without these controls CEO’s CFO’s and such are making stupid amounts of money that would be better used to increase work force, expand etc… Henry Ford ( I know he was not the most wonderful of people) paid his employees well, and instituted a 5 day work week. WHY? To keep his employees happy and so that they could afford the cars that they were making. IF you can not pay your employees enough money to buy the very product they are making your business, and I don’t care how big it is, is going to eventually fail because there is no one to buy your product.
All in all what is needed is not an increase in service industry min wage jobs (which is where we are), but we need real jobs. Job training/ cross training etc… One way to do this is for the welfare offices to become a sort of temp service. You want welfare fine we have it for you. IF you are an able body who is able to work (not the disabled) we will place you in a firm as a temp employee and you will be able to draw your welfare check if you work a certain number of hours per week. This will give an OJT course for people who want to work.as well as a possible job placement for those who prove themselves at that job. IT will also take the burden off the tax payer since the company will pay the welfare office as they do temp services now (going rate is the standard wage for the job). I mean really this is deficit reducing as well as lifting people out of the welfare system. What is the cost? I see a slight increase in the number of case workers for a brief period to handle the amount of unemployed we have currently, but that will sort itself out in years to come. The American people will be better off as a whole and more people will be working.
Why oh why did you have to fall back into the old disproven “The employers can’t afford it” argument. It’s *not* the basic math you make it out to be, and history has proved this time and time again. Also, speaking of which, your math is off. $1 increase translates to $80 more per week per person, not $800, which translates to $1600 with 20 employees. This is *not* a big deal, as the average income for a business that’s already large enough to have 20 employees will usually be making over at least $1 million gross yearly (The yearly increase in pay is only around 05% of the budget, the US average gross per employee is 68,400, which means unless they’re screwing up, a typical 20 employee business should be making nearly 30% more gross than that, specifically, leaving a LOT of breathing room). And the old “the employers can’t afford it” arguement, I’ve never seen someone make it who actually acknowledges the increase in business that comes with it, which it always does.
The usual business revenue from a minimum wage increase is generally a sustained 10% – 20% per 5% pay increase with an initial temporary 25% boost (this is where a lot of small businesses make a mistake, as confidence shoots up, they expand based on their new revenue and over-inflate their business, not expecting raise to slow back down as people settle into new finances instead of going overboard, and inflation usually happens here primarily due to increased demand, not due to significant increase in costs). Overall, when minimum wage rises, the average business, if they don’t go crazy during the “honeymoon” period, after inflation is calculated in, can expect a sustained ~8% increase in profits per 5% increase in wages (assuming they raise *all* salaries in like, not just their minimum wage employees).
Further, that’s just from an individual business standpoint. During a minimum wage increase, there’s an increase in self-employment (because of the self-employed work-cost ratio advantage). This means new businesses, which means new customers for B2B business models, so it’s not just retail and similar that get the boost, it’s across the board.
Again, I do see the same benefit come stronger from a cap on C-level wages, but I just don’t see how that could happen from a legal standpoint.
You are missing the point in that. I am not saying that larger corporations can not afford it, but the stance that a small employer will be hit hardest by this.
Seriously, companies like Ford, MicroSoft etc… Will be bale to soak this much easier, than the smaller manufacturing companies. At least not without taking drastic steps to ensure that they stay solvent. I see this coming in as a temporary lay off, increase in pricing etc… The smaller companies you see more of the dynamics than in the larger companies. Such as the increase of shipping, the cost of supplies, advertising etc…
I know this as a fact because I was a business owner and speak from experience. When you have companies that have buying practices such as Wal-Mart. Who very well may use the same supplier that you are you see this on a personal level. For example. Wal-Mart will be able to hold down .the cost of their stock because of this practice that smaller companies are not able to take advantage of. When I wasn’t able to carry product because Wal-Mart carried it cheaper than I was able to buy it from a supplier you see this is a truth.
The practice is quite simple. While most smaller companies call up and say I need X amount of this product how much do I owe, Wal-Mart will call up and say I need X amount (often thousands more than you would but an sell in a year) and I am going to pay this much. Because it is such a large volume the wholesalers will fold and accept the bid. Knowing that the smaller companies will pick up the cost differences at a penny here and a penny there increase in pricing.
While many people think Wal-Mart evil for their practice of employment I see the true genius of them and how they squeeze out the smaller companies.
This counters any self-employment factors if they are able to provide the same services. I have seen this in practice and all the poli-sci an finance guru’s iin the world are not going to convince me that I haven’t witnessed this with my own eyes.
Finally, since you are going to trust studies by the government, then you actually understand that President Clinton never had a surplus.
I own a small business as well. When one of my suppliers jacks up the price, I just look at it and see if I can afford it, and if not, hit up a different supplier, or alternatively, become my own supplier. Unless, of course, you were running a franchise, in which case you’re not a true small business owner as you’ve contractually handed off your ability to make your own business decisions to someone else and you’re just an employee who’s paying to work for the corporation.
With the hike in a min wage all the wholesalers will be forced into increase of prices. These will be felt by the small mom and Pops most over how a company with buying practices such as WalMart. Which, in turn will force Mom and Pop to have to raise their prices and by default, by your own example, we look as customers for lower prices. So, WalMart will get business the small business begins to falter.
This will effect the start up businesses as well. Of all those that start businesses how many fail within the first year, the first two years, IF the success rate of starting your own business was a viable option in a struggling economy more people would do so, but this takes capital or bank loans. Neither of which is plentiful. So, that takes start up businesses for most people off the table as an option.
So really a min age hike is not a solution to the problem. A Max wage limit is something that should be looked at. As I stated before capping the earned wage for example of CEO’s and CFO’s to about 200% of the lowest paid employee would result in wage increases across the board instead of making existing jobs that mak $15.00 an hour into min wage jobs. At no time in the history of raising min wage has there ever been an across the board wage increase to keep jobs that were already paid more than the current min as a cost of living allowance. With out a cola all you succeed in doing is increasing the size of the working poor and shrinking the middle class. Many of these jobs people have 2 and 4 year degrees as a qualification for the position. Not to mention how this will effect inflation and we have not even touched how the fed will react in adjusting for this.
For first, I don’t know many mom & pop shops that are wholesalers. That usually takes more capital to start than a mom & pop normally starts with. Most mom & pops usually start with something like a diner, lawn services, craftsmen jobs, or other service-based or ground-up based industries. There are exceptions, yes, but they are not the majority.
For second, during the last recession that we’re finally crawling out of, during the entire time, self employment and startups were on a very sharp rise and quickly becoming one of the more reliable forms of income. So history does not agree on that point.
However, again, I agree that a max wage could solve a lot of the problems but there is *still* that one primary issue… in our current legal system with politicians controlled by money, there’s little to no chance it would actually pass. If you can think of a way, that’d be great. A higher minimum wage may be a lousy fix, but its better than no fix, and one of the few that actually has a chance to survive the legal system.
.I think you misread that again. The price hikes from wholesalers will effect the mom and pop shops more than they will the larger corp like WalMart. Not mom and pop wholesalers.
The last recession (one prior to the we are still in) the banks were still giving out loans, (which in part caused the recession we are currently in), Not to bring politics into this, but to clarify which recessions we are talking about. I speak of the Carter Era as reference to the first one and the one that occurred during the G.W. Bush era as the last one (Yes we are still in that one) . The carter era recession started to recover in the Reagan era and the oft times pointed to the as a failure of trickle down economics. and it was improved upon during the first Bush. This recession was fully recovered by the time Clinton took office. Which during his first term and most of his second term the economy continued to do well mostly due in part by responsible budgets. The recession we are under now began with Clinton final budget (which is falsely credited to Bush adding 20 mil to the deficit thereby depleting the Clinton surplus. There never was a surplus http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16). This was further exasperated by the housing market crash under the second bush due mostly in part by the loans that Clinton encouraged during his terms. G.W. Bush was unable to recover a faltering economy during his terms and it fully crashed during his second term. Which, during the last two terms of the Obama admin fingers being pointed to a lowering of unemployment are often being touted as indication that the econ is recovering under his watch when the reality of those numbers is people falling off the unemployment rolls because they are no longer eligible for the benefits and moving to the welfare rolls, or taking the under paid jobs in the service industry in an effort to keep their families afloat in the still horrible economy. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-are-people-leaving-the-workforce/ Then we can compound this with the tax hikes that President Obama has made. http://www.atr.org/full-list-ACA-tax-hikes-a6996 compounded with an actual decrease of the self-employed http://www.careerbuilder.com/share/aboutus/pressreleasesdetail.aspx?sd=2%2F6%2F2014&id=pr802&ed=12%2F31%2F2014
Now while the min wage hike may survive the legal system, as you place it, it will be far more damaging then it will be helpful unless it comes with the unprecedented increase to wages across the board so that you do not increase the size of the working poor, along with the restriction on increases of things such as rent and utilities. Raising the min wage is not going to help is an unaffordable apartment is allowed to raise rents in step with the increase of min wage. Many folks project that prices wil increase by as little as $.25, but to be honest that is huge increase in all of our daily lives. Taken on the face “ohh it is only $.25”, but when you step back and realize that means a total increase of $1.00 on a big Mac meal, every four items in your shopping cart is raised by a dollar etc…So, again there are many reasons that I oppose an increase of min wage and NONE of them are because these folks do not deserve to make a higher wage.. What it will do to the economy has more of a drastic impact than the govenment to stop trying to influence the market and interfere with what will naturally correct itself without assistance (we see this to be fact on what occurred during Roosevelt and the great depression. Under Hoover’s manipulation the economy stagnated and even took a turn or he worse. FDR had so many other problems in his administration that he was not able to focus on the econ that he basically stepped back and let t the chips fall where they stood and allowed the market to correct itself. Which led to a very prosperous times.
No, I didn’t misread. I was saying that Mom & Pops can just choose to buy from different wholesalers, and that wholesalers aren’t going to be mom & pops so wholesalers don’t matter at all, unless the mom & pop made a stupid decision that tied them to a specific wholesaler (at which point, it’s not really truely *their* business anyway).
As far as the politics goes, I’ve never found republican or democratic presidents in recent years ever really understand economics. In fact, I think I’d be hard pressed to find more than five in all of congress who really understood economics. (This isn’t helped by the fact that economic divisions of universities generally are the most corrupt educational field, often receiving large benefits from special interests to focus on specific economic paradigms and, conversely, to *not* research other economic theories.. resulting in students who generally buy into economic theories that have less than a 25% predictive rate when there are economic paradigms that have been shown to have 80%-95% predictive rates).
Most of the presidents seem they generally just end up glazing over (otherwise the national budget and economic policy would shift a LOT more than they do) and just end up listening to their advisors who are usually listening to lobbyists who in turn are being paid by the banks who don’t really care if the president is democrat or republican just as long as they get to keep control of the federal reserve (side note… may be coincidence, but I’m inclined to think not… Kennedy was shot shortly after declaring that he was going to sign in a presidential action to reform the federal reserve, and the first thing his replacement did was rescind said order.)
As for minimum wage increases, they generally do come with wage increases across the board.
Further, the economoy does *not* naturally correct itself. It’s never shown that capability. The two biggest times that the economy was allowed to run itself resulted in standard oil effectively owning the US just before the great depression, and the previous major time was the wealthy landowners (predecessors to the kings and queens of europe) which led to the collapse of rome. A free market almost always leads to an enslaved population.
Amazing how this disproven fact is actually causing people to close businesses. A pizza place in Seattle, a comic book store in San Francisco is questioning its being able to remain open. Yet, this is a disproven argument or a straw man argument.
Yet more open than close.
care to send a link to show that data, not finding it. Hard to make the claim if there is no data, or debunk claim for lack of claim. Right now all we are seeing is the stories that are coming out of the closings. However, if you got a link to those that are opening in the areas that are under the wage increase effect. we have something to study.
Anyway: Here’s a post about job growth (and minimum wage increase) per state, spoiler: they are very closely related http://www.cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/2014-job-creation-in-states-that-raised-the-minimum-wage.
Then look at that list, and compare to the list of states with the fastest small business growth: http://www.entrepreneur.com/sbe/growth/
8 out of the top 10 fastest growing small business states (also in the categories of fastest growing economies) are also in the top ten for most minimum wage growth and in the top 10 for job growth.
(P.S. Sorry for deleted comment, I posted a link but I copied the wrong web address. 😛 )
In my experience google searches only work based on what key words you put in, Might be the difference in how you found it so quickly versus the criteria I was putting in. IF you can post up that link I am more than interested in seeing it. the other sites in your reply are not working either. The both look to be interesting reads. I still believe it is too soon so see how this experiment is going to pan out, not to mention due to the factors that I have previously mentioned that we will see skewed data since the wage increases are in a localized area versus nation wide.
Odd… both links are working for me (did you click my original post with the typo or my newer updated post?)
Many businesses in areas where there are no changes in minimum wages can’t complete with Amazon (and others) and demand that Amazon employ more people and pay taxes locally and not off shore. Oddly many of those who pay well above the minimum wage are doing better. Better trained staff with skill and advise still see customers who recognize that good support and advise is worth a little over mail order goods that are a few percent cheaper and a real hassle when something goes wrong.
Pizza places and comic books store close all the time, as do restaurants and other small businesses that are not well run. To use this as a scapegoat excuse is just that – an excuse -since they were probably failing anyway. This way they can give fodder to those like you that feel the poor should remain poor and just deal with it. As a business owner for over 20 years (that has always paid above min wage) I can tell you that employees are the only reason that you will stay in business and if you don’t pay them well the good ones will leave.
As a business owner you also are aware that if an environment is not conducive to your doing business (making a profit) then you will have to do something so that you can. You are not in business to just give money to those you work for you (while I do agree you have to pay who works for you well in order to do well yourself). IF the local area (City, state etc…) becomes such that you can not make a profit you are going to look for ways that you can. You may make that hard decision to lay off, relocate, automate, or even close your doors completely. The pizza places and comic book stores are only the first to go, we see McDonald’s Automating in LA and other areas. There is a domino effect that is starting which is something that you can not deny. Just because it is effecting smaller businesses that are more rapidly effected by the economy does not mean that it will not soon effect the larger companies. To believe otherwise is being blind to the events.
Many workers on minimum wage get state welfare – food stamps, medical care etc. If their wage is higher this subsidy isn’t required. Many small businesses pay above the minimum wage as their staff have more skills needing to do more variety of work. Those businesses that can afford to reduce profit, pay a little less to CEOs and raise the cost of goods and services will become more efficient; others will close. Those with more stable higher income (not needing welfare) have more choice where to spend. The government, not funding support to low income work and business have money to spend elsewhere or need less taxation and so more people retain more money to spend elsewhere. The effect is beyond the employee, the employer and customer.
Workfare schemes where the unemployed are pushed into job with no increase in income (unlike your suggestion) are being implemented in the UK. Many companies have withdrawn from these schemes due to bad press. Some regions have found that there is only a fraction of less than 0.1% improvement in job prospect for those who completed these schemes but are expensive and inefficient to administer. As an alternative the unemployed are expected to work for free with charities – forced to volunteer. However the charities who welcome people who commit can’t afford to spend time with training people who are not committed – those who will not turn up because they finally found paid work. The Green Party – a minor party with one in 650 seats – put forward the idea of a citizen wage. So an employer only needs to top up the wages and no one needs unemployment welfare as they are already getting a basic amount. The gain is that there is less means testings, low cost to administer.
What we see are subsidies for business, even those who have huge profits by tax gains, loop holes in taxation laws so they can avoid paying tax and state funding to cover costs as to the oil, gas and farming industries. The amount to support those who struggle in poverty is small and forever being cut back. Taxation has become very more more complex and expensive to collect. But someone is benefiting from this and it is not the those 62% of workers below the average income.
200%? Say goodbye to all your CEOs.
Are they really needed? Seriously? IS a CEO really needed to run a successful company?
You do know that is only triple the lowest paid right? I agree with a cap but there still needs to be rewards for those who rise to the top. Imagine the CEO of McDonalds getting paid $30/hr. Wouldn’t be long until McDs would be non-existent – wait a minute…would that be a bad thing?
You are very welcome your #@$%ing redneck…..
Are you being a racist?
No, i am being condescending. I am just tired of illogical people complaining and blaming others for their problems and Did you just ask me that? . If my statement bothers you more than the one above me, then you seriously have a problem MR. FRANKLIN.
Actually it was meant for both of you. The above statement is uncalled for but you did not need to return fire. It makes you look bad. Thank you for putting Mr. before my name. 😉
So, a company which already has operations elsewhere — 4,500 miles away, in another country! — is moving some operations to Reno. That other country, Ireland, has a very active program to attract jobs:
SIMPLY INTRODUCE US TO A CONTACT IN A COMPANY THAT MAY BE CONSIDERING EXPANSION. WE WILL PITCH FOR IRELAND AND IF THAT COMPANY LOCATES HERE YOU WILL RECEIVE A REWARD UP TO €150,000
Were the owners of Cascade Designs paid money by the government of Ireland to locate a plant there? shiftwa.org doesn’t say, presumably because they don’t care about the market-distorting effects of government policies on companies.
TENSOR, tensor, tensor!! When will you learn your lesson? Quit acting naive and remove the scales off your eyes. What about the company in San Francisco that are having problems as well? Why do you speculate that the governement of Ireland paid the owners of Cascade Designs to move? You are a typical liberal that blame everyone else but the policy that your liberal socialist party does. You need to seat back and ask yourself “Is it possible that the liberal socialist policies may be flawed?”, “Is it possible that the devoted liberal socialist people were cheated by faulty policies?”
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Stop blaming everyone else. …at what cost? Well Seattle, starting leaking those wounds. Cheers.
Why do you speculate that the governement of Ireland paid the owners of Cascade Designs to move?
First, Cascade Designs is not “moving” anywhere; they will still have employees in Seattle. They have decided, due to a number of factors, to expand to Reno — another place where the locals have avid, outdoor sporting lifestyles, which the company’s product line serves.
Second, click on the link I provided. The Government of Ireland aggressively pays both corporations and individuals who help businesses to locate new plants there. Why else would a company in Seattle take on the burdens of operating multi-nationally, with all of the complications that implies?
Did you know that in Reno are more business friendly with less tax? There is no link. I hope that you recover from those self inflicted wounds.
Did you know that the state government in Olympia gave Boeing billions of dollars in tax breaks? Do you know that Boeing has been moving jobs to Southern California ever since?
Why would a great standing Liberal Olympia politicians bribe Boeing? If I was Olympia and cares about the people I would cut taxes, remove the nonsense B&O and encourage Americans to open up factories for people to work at and more revenue will come in to keep the State afloat, but liberals don’t believe in cutting taxes so I cannot help you my friend. I was trying to open a business there that would have employed at least 100 people to manufacture soaps, shampoo, conditioners and etc… What turned me off was the BS city, county and state taxes, misc fees, B&O, EPA BS fees etc… How can a State prosper when you are not business friendly. Liberals need to start to be less hateful towards private companies and know that revenues is coming from manufacturers, corporations, and private companies paying taxes, and the employees that work in those establishment paying taxes as well. Revenues doesn’t come to tax people to death. Admit it or not you know I am right!
Why would a great standing uncorruptable Liberal Socialist Olympia politicians bribe Boeing?
Do you doubt our state government gave billions of dollars in tax breaks to Boeing? Really?
Valued at $8.7 billion over 27 years, the set of bills amounted to the single largest tax break any state has ever given to a single company.
Now, policymakers who feel they bent over backwards to accommodate the aerospace giant feel burned: In the past two weeks[late September 2014], Boeing announced it would move thousands of jobs out of Washington State.
Boeing announced last week that it would move about 2,000 high-paying engineering jobs in its defense division from the Seattle area to facilities in Oklahoma City and St. Louis by 2017. On Monday, the company said it would build significant portions of the wings and tails for its new 777X jet in St. Louis, which will mean about 700 more new jobs in Missouri.
What were you saying about business tax policy, again?
WA state still employees the most Boeing Employees than any other state. Boeing used to be headquartered here, then they moved them to an even more liberal/corrupt place, Chicago! Oh no!
I don’t doubt that WA gave breaks to Boeing, and I am sure that the favor was mutual by getting kick backs and money for running elections. You may not think it’s true but you don’t know what really happens behind closed doors.
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No government will negotiate with a small business if there is nothing in return. All politicians, no matter the affiliation, have one thing in common “What’s in for me?” As far as business tax policy I stand with what I said. WA and many other States are not small business friendly.
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Boeing was in agreement with the WA politicians that eventually they would move out of WA.
Once again….any relationion to burdening health care costs and union work stopages?
Might that have to do with the burdening health care costs, the work stoppages when the union does not gets it same bread and butter?
Foolish parasites of the liberal Progressive Leftwing Democratic Party have sucked the life from the people of this once great state. You have done this. Stand and admit your crimes against the Republic!
They will never admit it, besides they will blame the 1% wealthy, 10% self sufficient people, REP,and conservatives are to blame for there flawed policies.
Mr. Franklin,
I believe there is a significant matter you may be unaware of.
(source for the following : http://fiscal.wa.gov/Revenue.aspx)
Going by the 2013-2015 Biennium:
The largest source of tax revenue for the State of Washington is the General Fund. The second largest is from Federal Grants.
Roughly a 2:1 proportion, currently. There are other sources of revenue but they account for less than 4% of revenue.
Let’s break down the General Fund.
Two taxes make up the vast majority of tax revenue in the General Fund: ‘Retail Sales Tax’ and ‘Business and Occupation Tax’.
Retail Sales Tax is currently 65% of the General Fund. B&O Tax is 29%. Every other tax is 6% of revenue. Let’s simplify.
http://www.structuralviolence.org/CityLead.jpg
Unfortunately, I cannot prove my ultimate conjecture. But I will state it:
It seems to me that Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia residents pay the majority of taxes in this state. The population of the west side of the state exceeds the population of the east side, as does average income. This is not meant as an insult, simply a statement of fact, as I understand it.
The residents of the west side of this state desire serious long term infrastructure projects. More light rail expansions. Hopefully at least enough bus service to manage as we build the rail lines. The city, the region is growing, quickly. We literally must invest now if we want to keep up with the influx of people, and thus possible opportunity. We want to clean up Hanford. We want to preserve the beauty of the state. Not every Seattle resident is a socialist, hehe.
I would hope that it is clear to ALL that a Left/Right, Republican/Democrat, WestSide/EastSide mentality only serves to confound us and set us against each other.
After all, as you know sir, we must all hang together, or we shall surely hang singly.
First of all, I love WA,it is a beautiful State, especially in the Summer time there is so much that the State has to offer. I can imagine now, wow. WA State is of the few that I like, but I don’t like the mentality of King County. I don’t think that people in Seattle are socialists, but they were taken by this socialist lady with her ellequant speechs and bashing all oppositions and the majority voted for her. I believe that people should do their homework before deciding what candidate to pick or what ballot to approve. Many folks are too lazy to read and learn the truth, but they rely on biased advertisement that the politicians or special interest are spewing. People should not form opinions based on biased information that the media presents. People are educated enough to do some research and digging around for themselves before deciding who should be the next public serveant.
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Our country’s DEM and REP Congressmen and Senators should be public servant and not feel above the people. The majority out there are out for themselves, getting wealthy from inside trade, making a career our of the office they suppose serve, and reciplicate favors from the wealthy that funded their election campaign. I don’t believe for a minute that either DEM or REP use strictly people’s donations. All that mud slinging advertisement cost money and investigating each other’s background to discredit one and another cost money. There are so many 3rd parties out there that don’t get funded by wealthy corporations or wealthy unions and they are the one that people should start donating to and bring them up for office.
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US is divided into race, bigots, racists, liberals, conservatives, northeners and southerners, and other factions. The politicians know exactly what they are doing and that is to keep us divided, therefore we will be confused running different ways and votes are decided on who is prominant on TV and who had less mud stuck on them from the oppositions.
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I have been making this same comment over and over on different media outlets and my American brothers and sisters told me that I was out of touch. Even tensor thinks that some of the things I said, for instance how the US Dollar world currency is shrinking slowly and the negative effects on our country. Ask tensor who has the most gold reserve in the world, not us we came in 4th. Our politicians have water down the constitution that our forefather laid out for us and 2 US Presidents bypassed the legislative branch by signing executive orders and usurp the US Constitution (Bush, Jr. and Obama). The belief among some ultra left liberals is that the US constitution is antiquated and not with the times and was written by racists slave owners. Yes, some owned slaves but over the years the US Constitution changed that way of life for the better and our liberties were guaranteed to be untouched, but not anymore (Patriot Act and Obamacare 2 prime examples of force fed laws). They want more government control over us, lots of crazy people out there. Our constitution gave limited power to presidents to prevent dictatorship, but the Congress, Senators don’t say a word, neither does the people. The politicians just say it was just and within the US Constitution and the dumb down 89% eats it all up. The 1% don’t care they are in cahootz with the politicians and 10% (including myself) see what is going on and where the country is heading but we are the minority and we are disregarded as if we were crazy.
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Mark my words, the US will be a meaning less broken country that the communist are waiting for the Republic to fall apart. Once the Republic falls flat on its face and mayhem commences Marshall Law will be authorized and the US Constittution is suspended. Once there is lots of hungry, shelterless, and clothless people the Communists will bring a sense of false hope and security with their elliquant speeches that the people will bow down and have the Commies take over the government and null and void the US Constitution. Yes, you will get what you deserve because you refused to listed the 10%.
Actually…we do have the most gold reserves with 8,133.5 tonnes(as of 2014)
2 is Germany with 3,384.2
Soooooo just wanted to point that out. Okay have a nice evening
Of course they will blame the wealthy. Because the only ones to survive will be the “big business”. In 10 years or so, that’s all that will be around in these cities. All the small businesses that they love to support won’t be able to survive. Ironic, isn’t it.
What you fail to realize is that Cascade is publicly traded company, therefore its board of directors (to include President and VP) is beholden to its STOCKHOLDERS. So even if the board wanted to stay in business and still lose money in some bizarre, mindless, altruistic foolishness that only the liberal mind could appreciate, the shareholders would want otherwise. They invested money into a business in order to make a profit which is a completely natural action for a human being.
so in other words, they moved because the people who invested in the company wanted return on their investment. Welcome to the practical application of real life, not unicorns and candy corn theory that rots the liberal brain.
You haven’t answered my question.
>Were the owners of Cascade Designs paid money by the government of Ireland to locate a plant there?
Conclusion impossible. No data.
This is the only question you’ve asked.
By the way, this isn’t ‘asking a question’. This is ‘starting a rumor in the form of a question’.
Which is pretty much bog standard agent provocateur tactic 101.
Tensor, why are you here? On this forum?
I asked the question, which no one has yet even tried to answer, because the owners of Cascade Designs gave several reasons for opening a new plant in Reno, and I was curious if they had taken the incentives offered by the Irish government when they opened their plant in that country. How is this “starting a rumor”? The Irish government has promoted its employment initiative very publicly, both on the island and internationally. If Cascadia Designs took advantage of that policy, I believe their shareholders would approve, yes?
Of course, if the owners of Cascadia Designs were simultaneously taking advantage of one government’s economic policy while criticizing their own government’s policy, that would put their criticism of Seattle’s policy in a different light, now wouldn’t it?
Maybe your buddy Obama should quit printing so much money then the value of currency would increase and it becomes a free raise for everyone. Instead of just handing out paper that is becoming worth less and less, the money buys more and more. That is as much of an impact as anything. Checked food prices during the past 8 years since Congress first swung over to Pelosi? Yea that is when this insidious turn started and jobs started hemorrhaging. And of course you probably don’t realize this is just a ploy for every union worker to get a big bump too without renegotiating their contracts. Or the fact that every other time it has been done the cost of living increases simultaneously with the increase so that they essentially don’t get a raise just a number goes up. And who the hell are you to tell someone how much a job is worth? Do this and a bunch of illegals will do many of these jobs being paid under the table or the job goes away or replaced with automation. I think you need to read a book called “Free to Choose”. You might discover places without minimum wages actually do very well.
Maybe your buddy Obama should quit printing so much money then the value of currency would increase and it becomes a free raise for everyone.
The dollar is at a fifteen-year high, strong as it was when Clinton was in office. As a recent story in the Wall Street Journal explained, this is hardly a “free raise for everyone”:
“The U.S. is already seeing the negative effects of a stronger dollar, with trade slicing one percentage point from fourth-quarter growth. Still, its economy is cranking out jobs at a rapid pace.”
You might discover places without minimum wages actually do very well.
So, you’ll be moving to one of those places yourself, then? The sooner the better.
Are you anti-military?
TENSOR was so proud that Seattle has more jobs than other states, and the $15/hr minimum wage is not affecting the economy at all. It looks like that the smoke is starting to settle down a little and tensor and Seattle are seeing what is going on. They will never admit that the liberal socialists policies are flawed and causes economical disaster however, the republican, conservatives, 10% and the 1% will be blamed for their own inflicted injuries.
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Everyone knows what happens when excrement hits the fan, right? Well, there you have it folks! All tensor now will be doing is leaking his wounds with his tail in between his legs and blame everyone else except himself and the liberal socialists.
Can you help me out? What is TENSOR? (feeling pretty stupid not to know…)
“Tensor” is another “person” /liberal moron posting here
SeaTac was a good indicator on how piss poor the $15 was going to work out. Employees got screwed, and end up taking home less now.
Source?
Next they will vote out all the republican in the State and have liberalism and socialism in all positions. Kshama Sawant will be the next governor. Gov. Inslee is being labeled has being to far right from the left wing nut cases.
TENSOR SAWANT AND SEATTLE. Have you heard the saying “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you?” Maybe not, I know you guys think that the government will take care of your needs.
Slowly the begining of the end of the leftwing madness that has corrupted this state is upon us.
According to tensor it is the best thing that ever happened since sliced bread.
Other companies will follow which will get some headlines but what will really happen is that business will cut the hours of current employees and look to automation to reduce those overhead costs. Next time you are in McDonalds, Burger King etc please note the ever increasing ATM type ordering machine… In the long run cheaper to buy the machine than hire the minimum wage employee. Look what ATM’s did to banking, the self check out at supermarkets… Automation coming to you and pushed by the ever increasing minimum wage. Good job libs… MORONS!!!!!
Yeah, the phenomenon of technological unemployment didn’t exist before Seattle raised our minimum wage. Are you also going to pin the demise of jobs for makers of horse-buggies and automobile carburetors on our minimum wage, too?
Tensor pretends that price controls are economically and morally sound.
He is wrong.
Um, this is a wage control, not a price control. Thanks for playing.
Tensor, I appreciate your attempts at economic theory!
But I must inform you that your are making what is called a category error. Don’t worry, everbody does it!
Wages are but the price of a labor contract.
A wage control is just a specific type of price control.
Yes, but economists use the phrase, “wage and price controls” to denote the difference between the price of labor and the price of materials or products. If “price controls” are not “economically sound,” then the economy of the United States must have collapsed without anyone noticing, because we’ve had a federal minimum wage here for a very long time.
What percentage of main household american wage earners are on the minimum wage. I don’t follow the reasoning…
Feel free to enlighten me….thx.
In response to your question, I did my research using data from the US DoL Bureau of Labor Statistics.
“There are about 144 million workers in the U.S. rowing the boat.
Of these, about 76 million are paid hourly vs. salaried.
Of these, about 3.3 million earn at or below the minimum wage. (Below = “tip-eligible” including servers and the like.)
This is about 4.3 percent of hourly workers and 2.3 percent of all workers.Thus, 95.7 percent of hourly workers and 97.7 percent of all workers, make more than the minimum wage. Voluntarily.”
Based on the demographics, very few are household supporters and the MW tends toward younger workers and supplemental income. Some in fact are prime earners, and they would be most harmed as a group if the MW were to be increased, according to BLS and CBO analysts.
Are you anti-military
Are you anti-military?
And is not familiar that we already tried it through the FDR years and beyond and there are still messes it left behind.
I think the homeless, poor, the welfare receipients will need to get paid $15/hr as well. The ultimate goal of WA is to become 100% nanny state. If Kshama will be the next governor it will happen. She will fire all oppositions and fill those seats with socialists, liberals, and commies.
Holy moly. Is Kshama considering a run for Governor?
Might as well, tensor will munch on that carpet in a heart beat.
It’s not just Washington going after the 15 dollar minimum wage. You should maybe do some research. And I would call other states more so nanny states. For instance.. if you actually were well traveled in the United states and somewhat educated or street wise. You would know that some states which have a vast poor population.. (Even more so than washington does).. give their poor residents then any poor people here get.. all the way down to free cable or fios and internet. Not to mention. All the food and Healthcare they need. Do you think that because that’s happening in those states it doesn’t affect you in washington??? I bet you a years pay that its all peanut butter spread and it does affect you more than you think. I wouldn’t call washington a “nanny” state. And stop QQ over something that passed into affect.. you were out voted so live with it. Stop winning like a little pathetic b_tch. Either figure a way to fix the situation where it helps both sides equally or stop you QQ.. lol
Its funny how quick the left jumps in to say “you lost the vote so deal with it” but when it goes the other way.. say in regards to marriage or even if a minimum wage gets struck down it becomes a court action
That’s because when the left loses it’s obviously racism and a human rights violation. They need to be treated as a protected class because they can’t perform at an equal level.
You may want to work on you punctuation before calling others “uneducated”.
Yakko, you have personal issues, I will live that alone. Will the government as a whole will agree to do the following? Really? “Stop winning[sic] like a little pathetic b_tch. Either figure a way to fix the situation where it helps both sides equally or stop…”
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1. Government should minimize Immigrants so that people in the US can get a chance to get a job. Do as the Canadians do, if you have a critical skill that is needed you can be granted a working visa.
2. Government should provide the poor with the basic needs, subsistance, shelter, and clothing. That’s it!! No phones and etc…
3. Government should revamp the welfare system by giving them time limits and cannot exceed a certain amount, just like unemployment it is temporary.
4. Government should tax welfare benefits just like an income, just like unemployment benefits you pay taxes as if it was an income.
5. Government should have a programs to educate, trade schools, and other on the job training (OJT) for the welfare receipients and help find placement work for them.
6. Create incentives to help business to provide OJT.
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These are a few examples of what the government ought to do and stop people relying on the Nanny. I have a 200 page instructions on how to revamp the welfare system, but when I sent it to Congress and Senate their response was that it is impossibe and too much information. Let’s see Obamacare is how many pages? I thought of making a book and publicize it, but will the Government change their welfare benefits? My answer is no, because if they did not bother to apply some of the suggestions that I provided, what makes you think that they will listen then. I know that the majority will disagree with the information as well. I believe you would to. Would you like to read it. I have it on digits and hard copy.
So, Yakko how is it for a whinning little pathetic b_tch!! Any comments, disagreements, or dismissal of what I have written here?
Yakko, you do realize that even before the $15 wage fiasco that Washington state has the highest wages in the nation. That Washington ranks 17th in amount of pre-tax dollars paid to welfare recipients – $13.87 per hour equivalent based on the CATO Institute. Look at how Inslee & co., want to control every aspect of your life from the vehicle you drive to the food you eat. The very definition of a nanny state.
Raising the minimum wage by 50% will drive wage demands for increases of 50% for every field of work. A dental hygienist who makes 50% more than a fast-food worker now doesn’t want to take a pay cut compared to someone who doesn’t have her skill and training.
This will drive prices of everything everyone buys up by 50%. so of course Welfare recipients will have to be given more money or suffer a loss of their standard of living. No one actually gets any more purchasing power out of the deal, but people on fixed incomes get a 50% reduction in the worth of their savings and fixed benefit pension plans.
tensor, reading your weak responses gave me a chuckle, thanks! This last one proves how out of touch with the real world you are. The demise of the carburetor? I suppose in your world all cars run on batteries that are recharged by pixie dust, you are such a good little liberal aren’t you? Ever heard of a company called Edlbrock or how about Holley? Well they make the finest carburetors that a person can buy, oh and they build them right here in the United States. Just not in Washington state.
Thank you for the amusement provided by your clueless response, which missed my point entirely. Horse-drawn wagons are still built; they’re just no longer a major mode of transportation. Likewise, carburetors still exist, but the majority of gasoline-powered engines built today do not use them.
From wikipedia: Carburetors have largely been supplanted in the automotive industry by fuel injection.
I wasn’t referring to a boutique product, bought by hobbyists and specialists; I was referring to the once massed-produced product, reduced to boutique status by technological changes. I was pointing out that none of these changes can be traced to Seattle’s recent moves to lift our minimum wage. (The hint you missed was cleverly hidden from you, in the title of this post; thanks for the laughs.)
But don’t stop now: please keep those laughs a-comin’. The story of how you haven’t ever heard of “fuel injection” (which pre-dates carburetors, by the way) should provide even more amusement.
Boutique product? While our are hanging in your Mom’s basement you should go back to wiki and check out a little trade association called SEMA.
Truth is the increase in min wage is and will hurt more than it is helping. It seems like you are more concerned with opinions that facts but Dorfman make some pretty good points.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/05/06/seattle-will-hurt-local-economy-with-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/
Um, do you know that fuel injection pre-dated the gasoline-powered motor?
Anti military?
Ya but wiki is shit.. can be changed by any one to anything .. it’s a fact that most wiki posts are inaccurate. Sad but true.
Tensor did you actually know diesel engines are primarily fuel injected because of the high combustion pressure or did you have to look that up on wiki as well?
Incase you are interested maybe you should look at the buying power of the current wages verses the much lower wages in years past. in the 70″s I was able to buy more with $2 per hour than you can purchase at $10 per hour today. If wages had kept up with inflation our minimum wages right now would be closer to $30 per hour than to $15 per hour. But as the minimum wages is not tied to inflation and it has been a great many years since it was last raised the poor are getting poorer, while the rich have had their wages increase by over 400% over the years.
I have to say this, min wage jobs are not a career. Strive for more than the minimum and you will achieve more. Don’t blame others and take some damn responsibility
Is it easier to put oneself through college working at $7.25/hour, or $15/hour?
Do you hate JBLM?
Anti JBLM?
If one is unemployed at $15 an hour, I suppose being employed at a lesser rate (and commensurate with one’s value by definition) would be the correct level and correct answer.
What’s the basis for believing the $15/hour minimum wage is related to unemployment?
The law requires hoteliers with more than 100 rooms to pay workers $15 an hour. Scott Ostrander, former general manager of the Cedarbrook Lodge in SeaTac, argued during the campaign that he would close several rooms in his hotel to avoid having to comply. Now, Cedarbrook Lodge is moving forward with a 63-room expansion and recently started paying the $15 per hour minimum wage.
You give one example and like any condition and rule there are exceptions and obviously the Cedarbrook Lodge is doing well, good for them. But that does not translate into all situations any more than “Bill Gates makes X so you will too.”
The rule in this case (exceptions noted), is that if an employer does not find the quality of the labor to be worth the price, the employer will not buy that labor but will do without.
Now, when government sets the floor price of labor or any commodity for that matter, it is not taking into account the value of that labor or commodity. This leaves it up to the purchaser (employer) to buy or not. If the price is too high, the goods go unsold. Not too complicated.
You give one example…
Yes, the original post here contained just one example from Seattle.
…like any condition and rule there are exceptions…
The rule here is that businesses in Seatac, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington State are doing really well. If you have an explanation which involves their very high minimum wages, please give it.
…obviously the Cedarbrook Lodge is doing well, good for them.
The very place which told us they would curtail operations by a little is, instead, expanding operations by a lot. Your response is some hand-waving, instead of, say, asking, “why were the critics of Seatac’s $15/hour minimum wage so completely wrong?”
The rest is just your blather, mere words without factual or evidentiary support. Come back when you have an explanation for that rule I mentioned. (Bonus points if you can tell us why opponents of Seatac’s $15/hour minimum wage are now fleeing like cowards from the very clear predictions they made.)
You are making my points. This is a macro level concept, micro levels tell you about trees not forests.
Areas that do well overall tend to absorb if not demand higher wages because the demand is there. NYC is an obvious one, but is true of most major cities including SF, Seattle, etc.. But in a downturn (Seattle knows this), that goes away for the duration. Regarding those who made predictions, they are not entirely wrong, given the higher economic levels now. In a downturn, that factor is greatly diminished.
One could take North Dakota as an example a year ago. Minimum wage was voluntarily averaging $15-20 for starters and welders making $150K and up thanks to Bakken shale oil. Today, with depressed oil prices and output, those days are winding down rapidly. A booming area is not a relevant example, nor is a bust area. We are talking the concept here, same as before.
Look beyond the larger cities, the suburban and even rural areas or isolated medium-size cities. That is where you will see diminishing of job opportunities, where smaller businesses reign. That is where a forced minimum wage is going to have a shop owner do more themselves or hire higher wage, higher-skilled workers shutting out the first-rung kids. They simply have to be worth it.
Now, in large cities, where higher wages are the norm, you have more selection and fewer candidates who want/need entry level positions are shut out. The minimum wage is a bottom rung grab, typically for younger workers but sure, older retired workers, mom-hours, convenience stores, etc. make up the rest. But the key function or benefit is that first rung that gives job skills. Those are the kids losing out with an artificially high starting salary relative to their contribution.
Don’t forget, 95.7 percent of hourly workers and 97.7 percent of all workers, make more than the minimum wage. This demonstrates that if workers are worth it, they will and do make more than minimum as a voluntary exchange.
It also illustrates that a typical 50 year working life (ages 16 through 65) with a 2 percent average annual attrition rate, has the minimum-wage-earning population roughly proportional to all workers. In other words, this is not a dominant sub-set of workers, but a natural proportion on the bell curve.
Not blather, but if that is your level, go for it.
This is a macro level concept, micro levels tell you about trees not forests.
I asked for an explanation for why Washington state is doing so well economically, and you mention a few un-named, spindly, isolated “trees” somewhere in the interior:
Look beyond the larger cities, the suburban and even rural areas or isolated medium-size cities. That is where you will see diminishing of job opportunities, where smaller businesses reign.
Once again, with feeling:
In Washington state, small businesses are adding jobs faster than any other state in the country, according to a report from Paychex and IHS. It’s also the state where minimum wage, at $9.32 per hour, is the highest.
For someone claiming expertise on economics, your writing is remarkably sloppy:
One could take North Dakota as an example a year ago. Minimum wage was voluntarily averaging $15-20 for starters and welders making $150K and up thanks to Bakken shale oil.
No, the minimum wage was $7.25/hour — the federal minimum. I believe you were trying to say — and please correct me if I am wrong — that employers were offering starting wages far above that.
Today, with depressed oil prices and output, those days are winding down rapidly. A booming area is not a relevant example, nor is a bust area. We are talking the concept here, same as before.
You really don’t know the difference between a boom-and-bust cycle in an economy based upon resource extraction, and a sustained period of economic growth in a value-added economy?
After not explaining why San Francisco, Seattle, Seatac, and Washington state are doing so well, you give us the usual vague predictions of doom:
But in a downturn (Seattle knows this), that goes away for the duration.
So, you have numbers showing Washington state suffered worse in the recent recession (starting in 4Q 2008) than states with lower minimum wages? Please show that evidence.
And again, if you’re claiming high minimum wages have a significant negative effect on the economy, please explain Washington state’s economic performance:
March 8 (Bloomberg) — When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the state’s minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasn’t been borne out.
In the 15 years that followed, the state’s minimum wage climbed to $9.32 — the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washington’s restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
Good luck with that.
Not everyone can achieve better. There are many people who are college educated with awesome degrees and some with poor choice degrees as well.. who don’t have careers and who still work minimum wage jobs. Who work several minimum wage jobs just to barely make it.
LoL you need to move to the ghetto brother.. or a poor neighborhood. I can tell you know nothing of striving for better. You have an idea.. and you might have a career that you probably worked hard for. And most likely you’ll say you know all about growing up poor with nothing or being poor today.
Yes there is a percentage of folks who are lazy and who do in fact use the system and who are working minimum wage and who want and wanted 15 dollars an hour. But that’s not all of them. There is also the group of them who are hard working and who work 3 jobs..and no matter what they do they are still in the pits. And they realize that those jobs are not careers.
Step off your high horse and stop brow beating people. And treating them like none of them take responsibility.
Especially when it’s a fact that many people who are lucky enough to even get a degree because they want a career can’t even find jobs.
I have a fair idea about struggling to make ends meet. I also know how business works as well. The majority of people make more than minimum wage, approximately 96%. Will these people receive a pay increase or will minimum wage become the standard?
Also who will absorb the cost of the increasing wages?
Artificial raising of wages will not make things better
The margin % for the business owner might be less, but the pie will be bigger, because those people with the new raise will spend that money, not hide it in offshore banks. Giving people more money increases the demand for products. How is that a bad thing?
If the increase forces a business to close its doors, that will not pay a way through college.
Then lets make the minimum $30 per hour. That will give everyone more to spend. Or will it just lead to more inflation???
Wanker
You are right minimum wages jobs are not what they want for a career but sometimes that is all you can get while trying to find something better. If you had a choice of starving or working a minimum wage job to feed and house your family would you turn it down? Or would you take that job while still looking for a better job? You must remember that when President Obama took office for 6 months we had lost over 700,000 jobs a month and the stock market fell over 7000 points. Since he took office we have regained the jobs lost plus added several million more jobs, as well as the stock market gaining 10,000 points. Now that the job market has improved and we do not have several hundred people standing in line for 1 or 2 jobs that were being offered, the wages are being to go up once again. So now many people that are currently working at minimum wage are applying for better jobs as they become available.
Many of those that were standing in line for non-existant jobs have quit looking and are not counted in the faux labor statistics. Obamanamics are not working for Main St.
Maybe you should try listening to the current news as many of those that had stopped looking for work are looking again and that is the reason the unemployment rate went up .1 percent last month from 5.6 to 5.7 as the job market is opening up.
Minimum wage jobs will be all that’s left after the conservatives are done busting all the unions.
This is true.. many folks don’t know this and are blind to it. I believe this is more of a population /resource issue in a way.
Diesel engines achieve combustion via compression alone, and use heavier fuel, hence are fuel-injected. Otto-cycle motors use volatile fuel and can use a carburetor to mix the charge, prior to spark-ignition. This was well-covered by my professors in engineering school. I was merely having fun with yrlad’s unintentional humor, of going on snidely about electric cars (Tesla Motors, anyone?) without mentioning fuel injection; to hear him tell it, most of the automobiles coming off the lines these days have carburetors.
Meanwhile, who gets paid $17 an hour for waving a sign? Are the Koch Bros. trying to make it look like their attempted purchase of Congress has popular support?
Anti-military?
I actually like your post.
WIKIPEDIA is not a trustworthy source. How many times do people have to tell you that. Any moron can write all kinds of beefed up garbage in there.
No, the first used was indeed an alcohol/ air mix gravity carburetor used about 30 years before the first form of ‘injection’ (which really kind of wasn’t, since it also worked at such low pressure/ delivery that for all practical purposes, it was a ……carburetion system. And guess what? Your ‘WIKI’ has never heard of it. Try using real reference material.
You are anti-military, aren’t you?
What is wrong with the market determineing wages? Or are you not able to compete in the labor market? Why should government determine how much or how little someone makes? You want money, get it the old fashioned way, EARN it.
So if you working and your employee is not paying you what you should be earning who are you going to for help to get him to give you a fair wage. Just curious since you don’t think the Govt should have any say.
The larger view a lot of people miss:
According to the USDoL Bureau of Labor Statistics:
There are about 144 million workers in the U.S. rowing the boat.
Of these, about 76 million are paid hourly vs. salaried.
Of these, about 3.3 million earn at or below the minimum wage. (Below = “tip-eligible” including servers and the like.)
This is about 4.3 percent of hourly workers and 2.3 percent of all workers.
Thus, 95.7 percent of hourly workers and 97.7 percent of all workers, make more than the minimum wage. Voluntarily. Today. Right now. Because their employers know their value without being told their value.
Where are you from that employees have to pay the wages?
Oh Scooter ..how clever of u to come up with that witty post off my typo…you must be the life of the party coming up with that all by yourself…
Don’t be jealous because I am fluent in the language, and you’re like a dyslexic goat, to each their own.
The larger view a lot of people miss:
According to the USDoL Bureau of Labor Statistics:
There are about 144 million workers in the U.S. rowing the boat.
Of these, about 76 million are paid hourly vs. salaried.
Of these, about 3.3 million earn at or below the minimum wage. (Below = “tip-eligible” including servers and the like.)
This is about 4.3 percent of hourly workers and 2.3 percent of all workers.
Thus, 95.7 percent of hourly workers and 97.7 percent of all workers, make more than the minimum wage.
Voluntarily. Today. Right now.
Because their employers know their value without being told their value.
Wikipedia? Holy crap you must have your wikidoctorate by now.
Quoting wikipedia was merely a way of saying, “everybody knows”. I stand by what I wrote.
sorry yrlad but carburetors arent used anymore… holley and edelbrock make aftermarket carburetors for muscle cars/ antique autos to keep them running.
Needed to share some info.
Last time I checked, the large majority of grass trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaws, wood chippers, snowthrowers, rototillers, pull behind leaf collectors, push / self propelled lawnmowers and riding lawnmowers…
Even a fair amount of NEW dirtbikes and quads
Were NOT fuel injected…
Yes, that’s why I put “automobile carburetors” in my original comment.
(The lawn mower I used to push around my grandma’s yard was electric. She hated the noise and pollution from gasoline-powered lawn mowers.)
If…if….you read my comment heading.
You may notice that I was commenting back to some one else other than you.
Hey, Are you anti-military?
Mcds will be FULLY automated 12 – 13 years sooner in the US BECAUSE of THIS. Face palm yourself * here *.
How short sighted your wisdom tensor. Those jobs moved to a different sector, i think it was the AUTO INDUSTRY! This company had a labor cost issue, not a demand/product issue. It’s obvious you went to the same Econ School as Seattle City Councilmembers.
Fuel-injection replaced carburetors for sound technological reasons; it had nothing to do with wages paid to makers of carburetors. CVjuan’s point was that raising the minimum wage might bring automation to eliminate low-skilled jobs faster than it would without such a wage increase, which may be true, but the underlying cause is still technological advancement. The elimination of small, local bookstores owes far more to the internet, Costco, Amazon, and Kindle than to any change in wages.
As Seattle’s economy continues to grow and change, the authors here who hate minimum wages will continue to blame every job loss here, no matter how small or temporary, on the policy they already don’t like. Meanwhile, Seattle’s economy will continue to lead the state, and commenters here will still endlessly predict a dystopian future which, although it never arrives, somehow still proves we liberals are wrong.
tensor, are you anti-military?
Why don’t you just make your point instead of baiting every thread here.
You clearly have a response ready to go whatever tensor’s answer is.
The response is depending on the answer that tensor will provide. No, I will not say until your boy tensor answers the question. Since he avoids to answer I cannot be certain what to answer until he grows a pair and tell us the truth.
I am close to find the true identity of tensor. People talk and I know a few where he lives so I will find out soon. It is not the first time that I find people through commentarier, people do slip and talk what they did and say in comments. Don’t worry tensor once I know who you are I will tell you exactly who I am, you shall be surprised.
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So Tim!, be careful what you say out there you may be next to be identified. I love to ID people and talk to them in person believe it or not they are thougher behind their monitors and in the shelter of their mom’s basement. In the end we get along just fine some of them are my friends although their ideologies are on the way left field, but we do have interesting conversations.
I am the 10% and able to find the 89% (just in case you wanted to know I am not the 99% Occupy (whatever). Those guys have it wrong they should label themselves the 89%.
I have some suggestions for your future rhetorical endeavors. I think this one is already blown.
* DON’T: ask leading questions that have nothing apparently to do with the topic at hand.
* DON’T: needlessly complicate and dilute the discussion by asking the same question on multiple thread forks.
* DON’T: threaten people with doxxing and real world stalking and harassment.
* DO: present your arguments clearly, directly, and compassionately.
Good luck to you!
…and who are you again? I did not threaten anyone. Your assumption is a delusion of your inner mind so please keep it to yourself.
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You can’t restrict me to say anything unless you are a Commie and in power of a government, not even then I would listen to your power hungry sorry self! I don’t need luck, but you certainly do.
“I will find you in the real world” sounds like a threat to me, and to many other people.
I’m not restricting what you say, I’m giving you advice for better results in future discussions. You’re not bound by anything I say; I don’t know why you would think that.
However, you might be bound by law if you turn internet discussions into real world stalking and harassment.
Again, I did not threat anyone, stalk or harass anyone. If you feel threatened by me, please let me know I will give you my address so you can send the law after me. Make sure you have a good lawyer to press charges against me.
I’m not going to call the law on you. Being annoying on the internet is not illegal.
“I am close to find the true identity of tensor. People talk and I know a few where he lives so I will find out soon. It is not the first time that I find people through commentarier.”
“So Tim!, be careful what you say out there you may be next to be identified. I love to ID people and talk to them in person”
These are your words that I received as stalking and threats to dox & harass. You sound like you’re going to do something illegal. I am advising you not to do that, and to choose your words more wisely.
I tried to meet up with tensor in person when I was in Seattle, and I just wanted to talk to him in person. There is nothing illegal about that especially when the invitation is in a public place.
If I were to threat someone I would come out and say it upfront. There is no ill intention with what I said, but since this Country has become so political correct, bleeding hearts, thin skinned, and most of all delicate that people get offended so easy. I am old fashion and don’t believe in political correctness, being a bleeding heart, thin skin, or get offended that easy. I grew up to stand up for myself, say the truth, self reliant, and personal responsibility. Now these traits are no longer with the times the majority of Americans became soft.
If you want to meet up or talk to someone in real life that you met on the internet, the appropriate method is to ask them directly, “Hey tensor, let’s meet up while we’re both in Seattle and talk.” A lot more like what you’re now saying about forthrightness and personal responsibility.
“People talk and I know a few where he lives so I will find out soon.” sounds like going behind his back, doing sketchy investigative work, and stalking like a creeper.
I tried that and he did not accept nor declined. tensor kept making exuses. If I was in Seattle at this time I would ask you as well to meet-up. As far as knowing people in Seattle it doesn’t mean that they are going to do any bad things. tensor picked my curiosity and I really wanted to meet but too bad we could have become friends.
.
Anyway, sometimes it is hard to be politically correct and I do offend the 89% and miscontrued what it is said.
US Population division:
1% wealthy
89% occupy wall street and other labels, such DEM, REP etc…
10% self reliant & personal responsible
Personal responsible = people that know what is right or wrong in absence of laws.
The majority is not capable of personal responsibility because the thought process is if it is not regulated by the law it is okay to do. If it is regulated by the law then people know what is right or wrong. The government is Big Daddy for the blind whom need to be told what is right or wrong, sad to say the majority of people rely on Daddy for guidance. Personal responsibility and self reliance was thrown out of our country from 1960’s to present.
No, those are referred to as technology surpassing demand. And those are management faults if they did not retool or revise the business model. However if raising minimum wage reduced profits where the company could not retool, then yes. One could say that.
Low-skill jobs are being replaced by automation. One guy with a relatively expensive backhoe can replace forty guys with shovels. The price of the backhoe compared to the cost of hiring forty guys determines how the dirt gets shoveled. Currently it costs about four guy’s wages and benefits for two years to pay for a backhoe and its operating and maintenance expenses for the same two years. The shovel is only used where it is too difficult to get the backhoe into place or where the desired hole is so small that it would take too long to get the backhoe there. This is not a new phenomenon, but arbitrarily increasing labor costs make automation more attractive. It means business owners look at proposals for buying robotic sandwich-making machines sooner.
Automation was coming anyway. Even with out 15 dollar minimum wage. Even at 9 dollars an hour many companies have complained about paying employees. And many have conspired for years to bring forth automation of everything for years. Now with all the advanced technology we possess it can, has and will become more and more integrated into our lives. Nothing we do or could do can or will stop this. So either way this was coming.
I understand the want for higher pay.. and understand the struggle of trying to survive on minimum wage. And maybe this 15 dollar minimum wage is a horrible idea and maybe it’s more trouble than its worth. But atleast we can say we gave it a try. So in the end the people who really wanted it will maybe see the follies in it and It will become a good learning experience for all of us.
But I think with the world’s population growing and growing I doubt things can really improve. With more population we will see less jobs. We will also see increased cost of living due to lack of resources or extreme demand for resources. And of course with technology it won’t be immigrants taking jobs and working for cheaper that will be the issue. Because hiring humans and humans working a job costs so much we will see machines instead of immigrants. Humans will always want more and cost more.
Your point is well taken, and is factual. Thank you!
But here’s a thought for American business persons who increasingly switch from Human workers to machines and automation replacing us Human workers: when do the machines and computers BUY YOUR GOODS AND SERVICES?
Think about that American business bean counting persons! Think!
Someone has to design those machines then someone has to manufacture them and then someone else has to install and maintain them, then someone has to train people to use them, then someone has to recycle them. Lots of new jobs that pay better than the shitty job. Sounds like a win win!
Hmm, I guess that explains why Seattle restaurants are hiring more workers than ever. (Also, spoiler: This article lies. The actual numbers don’t match what the article is presenting.)
SEATTLE – THE NEW WEST COast Detroit. THASNKS TO THE COMMIES THAT DOMINATE THE STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, AND THE IMMORAL STUPID LEFT WHO KEEP VOTONG THESE LOSERS IN.
uh have you been to Detroit? Seattle looks nothing like it. Seattle was just ranked #1 city for a job by Wallet Hub/Forbes.
it’s really not that bad here.
Maybe the employees can feed themselves. I don’t how they can afford to live on $15.00 per hr.
Kshama needs to protest once again and raise that minimum wage to $30/hr.
I don’t get it. They knew the date the wage hikes were coming yet they didn’t adjust their business accordingly in advance to fit the new model. Then others quit without even trying just admitting defeat. Don’t get me wrong I’m not for 15 an hour but to call those casualties seems a little over blown. In my opinion we should tariff the shit out of other nations goods, including US operated companies manufacturing overseas. Make it too expensive to develop anything outside the US. But thats just my opine.
>They knew the date the wage hikes were coming yet they didn’t adjust their business accordingly in advance to fit the new model.
Either they are totally economically illiterate (inept business men), or …
Well. I’m going with inept business men. and/or women. and/or trans/whatevers
(the internet has ruined me) 😛
If your a small business owner who does a lot of business online, beware of the new laws and regulations and such coming up for those..
They are adjusting their business. Just like you were warned.
What you are endorsing is mercantilism, It leads to stagnation, low growth and lack of innovation and eventually economic collapse.
Have fun with that.
Gabriel, there was an article on the book store previously, he looked at his books, he tried to figure out where he could cut expenses and stay open HE COULDN’T..The price of books do not go down, and he doesn’t set the price for the books he purchases, those prices are set by the publishers. When the owner did his end of year–he made $3000 total, so if he’s having to pay his employees $15 an hour by the end of this year he would actually be losing money to keep his doors open. How does that benefit him as the store owner?
Please google: smoot holly tariff
They are adjusting; their business costs them 4k/mn to run, they were making 6K/mn, business was working just fine. Now business will cost them 5K/mn, and no increase in purchasing means profits cut in half. If you are business owner this could mean you now don’t make enough to pay your bills. So, you either slowly drain your accounts, or stop the losses and close up shop.
Hope Kshama Sawant is happy; her plan to increase UNemployment in Seattle seems to be working…..
Don’t you understand yet! The goal is not to raise minimum wage — that is just the narrative. The goal is to KILL CAPITALISM.
Yes, KILL CAPITALISM and RESURRECT A BASTION OF GOVERNMENT that will take good care of them all. They will be all tucked in at night and will have a night light on for them so they will not fear the dark.
I guess you are agreeing with me. Is Seattle the next Detroit or the home-to-be of Equality 7-2521?
I think that is what is going to happen if Seattle keeps smoking that legal weed that they love so much. I found this in a Cliff Notes “Equality 7-2521 is a man who holds on to his own mind in a collectivist society that demands blind obedience to the group. The single most important factor in understanding his character is his independence.
1. The first sentence is pure Utopia that Socialists and Seattle Liberals and across the country want, but actually people don’t have “Self Responsibility and Accountability”. The only way that people work collectively if Big Daddy Government takes your liberties to choose otherwise, in other works you will have cattles that will do what they are told.
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2. The second sentence “understanding his character in his independence”. How can you understand independence if you are in a collectivist society? You cannot have an independent person that would want to do something different without the group or superiors approval. For example, the military in order to work collective and achieve the mission is to obey the officers without questioning, so they are collective working together as a team like cattles, no disrespect intended. Independent mind is not part of the mission, and it is the same if Seattle takes on all the private business and make them “public”, (more like government owned), the people of Seattle and TENSOR will need to consult with the rest of the group and their superiors to change something, but the chances are slim that the group will buy into it.
You ask a great question: “How can you understand independence if you are in a collectivist society?” You are in a collectivist society, and yet, you understand independence well enough to know it is important — as that is the heart of the matter. So I guess, you could increase your understanding of independence if you read Anthem and found out how Equality 7-2521 came to conquer his guilt and his fear and understand independence. There are more of us than your think who understand independence.
Hi, my mind has been open for years about independence, freedom, and liberty. I met few people through this kind of media and in person. I don’t know why everywhere I go and see what is going on I noticed the same old things. People are like sheep follow and believe their shepherds. I have been called crazy, right wing nut case, take your meds, etc… Some people told me that I should not be so hard on others because they are not aware of the knowledge and no matter what they will dismiss me.
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I never heard of Equality 7-2521 I skimmed through it I just need to read it thouroughly, but I can see Seattle heading that way especially now they have this Counsel Person that was financed by unions and bought King County. I see the direction they are taking and it is bothersome and the majority don’t see it. Don’t dare try to wake them up they will call you crazy it is beyond their comprehension.
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When a group of thugs decided to call themselves the 99% I refuse that label, I am not a sheep, therefore I tell them there is 10% of us that are not part of their way to the slaughter house, and they are quick to dismiss me as a paid actor for the 1%. Sometimes it feels like a curse to be aware of what is independence because I feel I am not able to wake the 89% of the sheep.
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We should get in touch more often. my email – first and last name 755@ gmail.com (all together no spaces in between)
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Oh Cascade Designs wasn’t the first casualty of this stupid plan to force employers to pay $15/hr — even when the job isn’t worth that much!
The first people hurt were the restaurant servers at the Airport. I have refused to “tip” anyone making $15 per hour or more — especially when the meal tab is $100, and 15% would be $15 in “tips”.
Wait staff at restaurants (even fine dining) do not deserve to be paid more than I get with five years of college education and decades of work experience making highly technical products. Unless maybe they’d like to start “tipping” me for serving them with computers, satellite weather service, GPS navigation, wireless cell phone communications, satellite internet service, missile defense systems, and automobile safety airbags?
At least some of these things are worth more than what I was paid to help make them, but I won’t have a job tomorrow unless my employer profits off of my work today. I wonder how many people don’t understand this basic economic principle? I wonder how many more know it, but choose to deceive others about how payments for a portion of the value provided is how business works?
Oh, I disagree. Engineers are a dime a dozen; good waitstaff is much harder to find.
“Engineers are a dime a dozen; good waitstaff is much harder to find.”
+1
I really hope johndaddyo444 doesn’t go to any of the restaurants/bars/brewpubs that I visit, and that he not identify himself as an engineer if he does go to those places.
It’s amazing how narrow-viewed everybody is. The problem isn’t the minimum wage or the small business owners. It’s the BIG business owners. Look at how much their pay has increased over everybody else’s. It’s beyond outrageous that the top person in any company should be making 100,000 to 10,000,000 TIMES as much as the lowest worker! PLUS, paying them as much (or more) for failing as for succeeding? Total BS. Raising the minimum wage has the effect of them buying one less watch every other year, whereas it has a huge effect on those way below. It impacts the small business owner the hardest, thereby putting them out of business which increases the big business owner more money. That’s what the government is there for: keeping the big businesses making more money, using the guise of “protecting, and trying to improve, the little people.”
What? You are anti-military and anti engineer
Maybe you should try working at the wages they were receiving before the minimum wage increase while still not getting tips from clowns like you. That by the why made them relay on Welfare to support their families, where now that they are making a living wages saves the taxpayers from supplementing their income with food stamps, medical and in some cases additional money to pay their utilities. Instead now they can support themselves and save the taxpayers money ion the long run while also having them pay more money into the income taxes to cover other expanses of operating the country, state, county, and city or town they live in.
Brought to you by the same people who are not putting criminals in Jail; the crime rate in Washington State and California has gone up over 20% because of repeat offenders. They are destroying their own society, maybe someday the average Joe will wake up but for know we have socialism at it worse.
According to tensor, WA has the lowest crime in the States.
The going rate for a liberal should be $2.50 an hour.
I smell bull regarding Cascade designs. Even if *every* employee in seattle was making minimum the current increase only raises their cost 200k, and the eventual cost in five years at max about 1.2 million. Fact is, most of his employees are not making minimum and the cost to their payroll is minimal. They are moving for other reasons and hiding behind the minimum wage.
I came here to say just that. Thank you for being so level headed and providing a realistic view of what is happening here!
Wow 100 jobs?
Good thing Amazon is hiring thousands.
For how long?
That’s 100 less people working, 100 unemployed collecting welfare, 100 less revenues going to the government. Wow. You are so intelligent!! Not! Moron is more appropriate.
Right…because when minimum wage was $9/hr they weren’t on government subsidies.
And thanks for recognizing my intelligence!
How can you trust a small, fly-by-night company like Amazon? What have they ever done to show loyalty to Seattle? 😉
Remember, when a job leaves Seattle, it is because of $15/hour minimum wage, paid sick time, or some other liberal policy. Once it’s gone, it’s gone forever and ever and ever and ever, and no other job, no matter how well-paying, can ever possibly replace it — and no fair pointing out those new jobs were somehow created in Seattle, where our policies obviously forbid jobs.
You know any time there is a pay shift something always changes that makes it the reason why it should not have been done. It takes years for a large shift like this to work itself into the norm. There’s really nothing to be angry about you can pretty much find your exact privileged white male rhetoric strewn about history during every proposed economic change to small businesses. So far the entire market hasn’t collapsed. I’d love to say, hey if you’re so angry you could get the permits and rally but I understand that means actual effort and you would be on your feet for several hours.
So the real meat is a company is moving manufacturing to somewhere else. This really means that displaced workers don’t have the skill set needed to complete. Outside of the U.S. this usually means you would go back to school and learn a trade or something else, here it usually means you bitch about it until you realize you can’t control the market shift and move on with your life. I have this jar everyone can pass around in cry in, it’s great for watering tomato plants.
if they cant figure out how to manage an extra $2 an hour for their employees then they don’t deserve to stay in business. try raising the cost of books by one penny or cutting the owner salary from 200k a year to maybe 150k a year. dip shits, i don’t feel sorry for them.
I’m probably going to get cussed out for this…
So after all this arguing, what has been accomplished? You probably won’t change anyone’s mind because if they’re on here arguing, they’re pretty set in their opinions.
Bring on the haters
Why is it so hard for liberals to understand that paying a burger flipper 15hr will ruin our economy! What part of my wages will not go up to offset the cost of inflation! Tensor do the world a favor and go rap your lips around a tail pipe and inhale find one with a carb!
Gasoline is expensive, and I’d have to inhale a truly gigantic amount of carbon monoxide before I could even begin to believe our economy depends in any way upon what we pay the people who flip burgers.
So, let’s recap. There are four companies mentioned in the original post. Cascadia Designs, which has already expanded internationally (as a result of government subsidy?), is expanding to Reno. While the owners say they are not expanding here due to the coming increases in our minimum wage, a lack of space in Seattle (due to our booming economy) is also part of the decision. This is the only Seattle company mentioned.
Borderlands Books was already going out of business when San Francisco raised the minimum wage. Abbot’s Cellar, one of the restaurants named, was a new, very high-end venture (in a very expensive space) by well-established restauranteurs, whose original restaurant, Monk’s Kettle, is still doing well. Luna Park is not mentioned in the linked story at San Francisco eater, but another story at that web site notes that Luna Park was sold to a new owner and will be turned into a bar. (The new owner already has successful restaurants, so this is also an expansion plan.)
The small business owners blamed San Francisco’s wage hike as a factor in their decision.
Yes, yes they did. And the San Francisco Eater itself cast doubt on their claims: “…so this might just be a politically charged exit strategy.” Yes, yes, it might indeed be.
If this is the worst a $15/hour minimum wage does, Seattle has little to worry about.
tensor, Please, let us know if you are ANTI-MILITARY.
This is how you break the small guy and put it all to the conglomerates who can weather it out and then increase prices to cover once most of the competition is gone. Brilliant liberals
but they said this wasn’t going to happen. The so called experts said these places would be able to make up the wage differences out their profits!
Whoever wrote this story is complete hack. The company was already expanding to Reno, NV and it wasn’t because of the $15/hour min wage. If this company can’t pay employees a measly $15/hour then they should fail but that’s not the case. But let’s get some quotes from the CEO of this place or even an employee but of course none of that here because this fear mongering story is for clicks. Nevada was a business friendly state way before this new $15/hour wage in Seattle and it’s smart to move part of your business there as you grow. WA in general is not small business friendly and they never have been since I was a small business owner for many years. See how nobodies name is attached to this story, what a bunch of wimps who run this site. This is garbage journalism at best. NEVER DONATE TO THIS SITE, IT’S A RUSE. THEY HAVE NO CAUSE, THEY JUST WANT YOU TO SEND THEM FREE MONEY.
You have to wait for a consumer cycle for the store to pick up. Once the workers get paid they can buy goods that are inflated to pay the employee.
Got a burger at the Five Guys in Monroe last week and noticed the prices went up twenty cents. The clerk said it was because the state minimum wage just went up. It is pathetic how politicians refuse to correlate cause and effect.
It is pathetic how politicians refuse to correlate cause and effect.
The politicians had nothing to do with it; we passed I-688 by popular vote, after our legislature refused even to vote on identical legislation. Per I-688, the annual increase in our state’s minimum wage, if any, is automatically driven by an increase in the cost of living.
Got a burger at the Five Guys in Monroe last week and noticed the prices went up twenty cents. The clerk said it was because the state minimum wage just went up.
Last year’s minimum wage was $9.32/hour. This year it is $9.47/hour. That’s a 1.6% increase. Twenty cents added to a $3.50 burger would be a 5.7% increase — three and a half times as much. Does everyone there work at minimum wage, or maybe the owners are blaming a policy they don’t like anyway, even if they decided to raise prices for other reasons?
In 1950 at age 15, I pumped gas at a Colorado resort for a commission of 1 cent per gallon and 50% for every boat ride plus tips. My bed and board were covered by feeding horses and shoveling stalls plus cleaning cabins when they were busy. I earned more than I spent. That summer gave me the confidence to enjoy a career selling insurance. How sad opportunity is only measured in increments of $15/hr.
coz Reno doesn’t give a shit about its people getting a livable wage!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Good. Let it all burn. I hope everyone in that city loses their job, you stupid lemmings.
I hope everyone in that city loses their job, you stupid lemmings.
Thanks for your input, and sorry to disappoint:
Not only was Washington the strongest state, San Francisco — with a minimum wage of $10.74, the country’s highest — had the greatest job gains in the past year among cities measured.
HAHAHA you think that’s how the world works? The highest minimum wage caused unemployment to go down? Here’s some facts to fix that learning disability:
http://www.oshonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/lemmings.jpg
Um, the facts are as I quoted. Last year, in the state with the highest minimum wage, our very own state of Washington, small businesses added jobs at a higher rate than in any other state. The city with the highest minimum wage, San Francisco, added more jobs (from all types of businesses) than any other city measured. Persons who posit a clear and obvious causal relationship between raising the minimum wage, and job growth, will have to explain why there were more new jobs in those aforementioned places; I’m just following the data.
I understand — these are facts, and as such, totally and easily eviscerate your most strongly held and cherished beliefs. It must hurt immensely, watching everything you claim to know get so easily revealed as utter garbage. But, you see, I care more about the prosperity of my city, state, and country than I do about your precious feelings. Deal with it.
Your link goes to a small image. Is that your idea of a “fact”? (Don’t worry; no one expected you to have any facts to support your claims.) No matter, you and BEN and all of the other smug, self-righteous, ever-failing prophets of doom can continue to lecture us liberals on how we’re going to suffer from our policies; we’ll continue working hard at our jobs, and laughing all the way to the bank.
Okay, okay the image was in bad taste. But please tell me more about how to be a statistician and about your personal political philosophy because it is fascinating.
Okay, okay the image was in bad taste.
Who cares? You intentionally misrepresented it as a “facts”. Either you don’t know what “facts” are, or you’re a pathetically foolish liar.
But please tell me more about how to be a statistician…
Go to school. You don’t need a background in statistics to see San Francisco and Washington state doing well with their high minimum wages. You just need eyes and a brain.
…your personal political philosophy because it is fascinating.
It involves basing conclusions upon facts; you wouldn’t get it.
Wait. I think I’ve got it. The whole time I’m thinking, “There’s no way one person can be so humorless, slow witted, and oblivious to sarcasm. There’s just no way.” And then I realize it: you’re trolling me! I mean, I was intentionally being an ass to mock your retarded understanding of… (wait, can I still say retarded?)… your R-word understanding of economics, thinking how much smarter I am, and all of a sudden I’m like, “Wait. He knows how dumb he sounds. He saw this coming the whole way. He’s just pretending to be this much of a left-wing stooge and has suckered me into mocking something that he’s already mocking by getting me to mock it! I’ve fallen right into his trap.” But I figured it out, so your ruse ends here, you nave, you scoundrel, you closet conservative. Check and mate.
Thanks for your input. Good to see your grasp of facts, logic, and reason meets the standards set by the front-page posters here. Your wish that we all lose our jobs here in Seattle will continue to fail; again, sorry to disappoint. Thanks for playing, now you can go back to your important work with the frog and magnifying glass…
This POS is the darling of western Washington. If a monkey ran as a democrat he would win by virtue of the western Washington voters. Blind faith in a union driven party.
Raising minimum wage is like taking pain killers to cure a broken leg. It’ll alleviate the pain for a while but the effects of walking on said broken leg will have permanent consequences. Yes, the first few paychecks on that increased minimum wage seem like a dream come true. However, the only companies that can sustain a workforce on that kind of wage are big money companies that’ll simply increase your living cost so their CO’s can continue buying up summer homes and other stupid shit with your money at the same rate and in the end your increased minimum wage only resulted in a decrease in the dollar’s value. Literally the only thing that changes is more small businesses biting the dust because they don’t have the economic power to reap the benefits. Congratulations, you’ve helped a group of rich people get closer to their goal of monopoly.
so less jobs, for a higher minimum wage, helps who exactly?? Besides the people that actually keep their jobs ………. just saying common sense ain’t so common
2005 and 2006 during a construction boom on the gulf coast I remember seeing the help wanted signs at Taco Bell $14 an hour. Not because of government mandates, but because that was the market rate. The stores were busy and had tons of business and could naturally handle this level of pay. It was a natural cause and effect of market conditions. Entry-level jobs are not careers.
Sounds to me like plans were already in the works and this is just a way to blame some policy instead of a shitty economy…
It really doesn’t matter what happens to small business. If I cant afford to pay my bills every month then minimum wage has to go up. Period. If that means your business will go under then sorry for you bud. I’m not going to starve to death because you want to run some shit business.
Bill Lester of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill was on the team that looked at 16 years worth of restaurant employment data for 316 pairs of border counties.
“And when you add up all those comparisons and look at the average of all those differences in employment, the difference is zero,” said Lester.
Or, to put it another way: When the minimum wage increases, said Lester,“On aggregate, there’s no job losses.”
source: http://www.kplu.org/post/why-wont-mcdonalds-move-20-feet-lower-wage-idaho
Irony: The very people who support these delusional and naive agendas – Are typically the only ones suffering under them.
Record high youth unemployment (16 to 30) + Record high school loan debt + Median incomes reduced by $4,000 per year since 2009 = Reap it.
Meanwhile – We “evil rich 1%’ers” are doing great. Stocks are out performing forecasts and REITs are screaming along at 16+%.
I find it amusing how the typical self proclaimed “connected and aware” generation – Are so gullible and ignorant of issues directly affecting them.
They should try actually researching a topic to form their own opinions – Instead of mindlessly regurgitating pathetic rhetoric they “heard somewhere” and accepted as factual.
It’s not just the $15 an hour wage. Cost of living in Seattle is atrocious. Much cheaper to live in Reno.
I have been trained in economics at Penn State. I know this will come off as too analytical, but there, very unfortunately, will be losers with the $15/hour minimum wage.
So, then, where’s the hoped for winners? Does the $15/hour minimum wage result in net job creation in Seattle and S.F.?
I have not delved into how many employees this raise in minimum wage involves. If it is a large number of workers, and there is more money being spent by these workers spreading more money within these local economies (in economics called a money multiplier effect), the increased minimum wage may create more jobs.
But if the increase in the minimum wage does not cause money to be spread throughout these local economies, and on net, create more jobs than are lost, this increase to $15/hour will reduce overall full-time employment creating more part-time jobs, or eliminate jobs altogether as reported in the article by Shift.
So, we must ask: is this good economic policy, or scum bag politicians playing for votes to stay in office forever?
Time will tell, but loss of some people’s jobs will occur, and this inflicts harm on those workers and those whom these workers support (I.e. children).
So, stay tuned…
“The man” is the one who pays the wages. Remove the reason for being in business and “the little man” goes on the dole. “Screw the rich” is a maxim used by those who expect to be lifetime under-achievers. No one with any sense of reality wants to take from competent people to support a bunch LOSERS. Meanwhile,liberal elites are out there trying to figure out ways to cull the “useless eaters.” People like Bill Gates.
Have liberal socialists ever worked?
At least the restaurants can raise their prices to cover the wage and not really affect the customers as now they WON”T have to tip that the employees are making a “LIVING” wage.
government involvement in business is never good.
This is what happens when people vote with their “feeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings” instead of their common sense.
Welcome to Reno, Cascade Designs and crew!
Here goes unemployment yet again. 11.5% is nothing to brag about. Yes the numbers falsely show 5.6%. That is because they only count those actually still looking for work or someone who may have worked 2 hours somewhere, and not those that have completely drop out. Add up all the unemployed and underemployed and it is actually 11.5% (or higher) of Americans that are out of work. That is in the neighborhood of 13 million people. Why do the numbers not show that? Less then 3 million jobs have been added out of the 13 million lost. That is still a 10 million shortfall. All this is going to do is increase unemployment in some areas while in others it will decrease it. Basically flat lining.. The more people that get back to work the better the economy will improve. If the government would keep their fat greedy fingers out of the private sectors the economy will get better and not worse like it has been.
The Liberal Democrats knew this would happen. The politics of poverty and class envy are the cornerstone of their power. With the increase of poverty will come the broadening of their power base and along with that there will be more regulation and control over the growing legons of sheeple.
Beautiful piece of journalism. Minimum wage “nudged them into action” headlines story. ”
“The need to expand—an expensive prospect in Seattle—added to Cascade Designs’ decision to move” is all but lost in the middle along with the fact that 20% of the workforce is leaving not all the workforce. So the rapidly rising price of land, and the demands of real estate to build housing for the thousands of people moving to the fastest growing city in the United States (Seattle) is ignored. They need to expand their business and renting or buying a factory in the Sodo district has influenced their decision to move to a more centralized state which offers cheaper real estate and improved logistics. They could move all their staff if they can convince the skilled and educated workforce that Reno is better than Seattle. Cascade designs manufacturing facilities are decrepit at best (I’ve been).
To live in Seattle or even the surrounding towns and cities costs at least $30000. First deduct taxes which would be around $4000 for an individual. After you take into account rent (average $1200+ a month 1bed 1bath), transport (bus $1400min a yr, or car $2500 min), food ($3600 min), Heath ins ($3900 average). That leaves just over $7 a day to cover clothing, utilities, additional medical bills, etc. etc. etc.. I didn’t include any luxuries like a phone or cable tv which are easily another $1000 a year for basic service.
People who post that a minimum wage shouldn’t be a living wage are extremely short sighted. These people living paycheck to paycheck will never have savings so will need support in retirement. Very expensive support. You will pay for that whether you think it, like it, or not. I hear students and young people can work these jobs for less. What? all of them? all the manufacturing, retail, service, restaurant jobs? Good luck with that. Seattle is an expensive place to live and $15 per hour DOES NOT COVER the cost of living here. If you’re married then maybe, but everyone isn’t getting married. You can live outside the city but then you have the expense and time of commuting. Pay now or pay later.
Do you even know what the economics behind a higher min wage is? With everyone making more money there will be less people on government assistace. Which equals out to our government saving HUGE dividends. Not only will that burden be lifted but people will actually be able to afford to spend more money. What happens when people spend more? OUR ECONOMY IMPROVES! Just because your all for making your money from overworked underpaid employees, does not make it right! Learn some basic economics.
Here at Seattle Gymnastics, we have about six of our 140 employees at minimum wage. To keep everyone on staff in the same relative position as the minimum wage goes up is going to cost a lot of money. We’ve been up front with our customers about our raising prices to pay to higher wages to staff. We’re holding our breath to see how it works out.
Casualty? Pfffft… More like ignorant moron moving for other reasons and blaming a perfectly sane and responsible minimum wage. History shows us that better minimum wages, stimulating lower income families, improves the economy for everyone, including the people paying those wages.
Why not just 10 dollar minimum, or 12… 15? sounds a bit greedy to me. It’s 8 here BTW
I was considering listening to the ideas until I read the comments. Sadly the place in your heart you write from deters my intent to believe. I will not support this movement as it seems as corrupt as the one you are against. Terribly sad!
McATMs… Coming Soon.
Thanks Traitor in Chief.
This story is nonsense. A few marginal places close their doors because they have bad management or too greedy not because of the minimum wage. Even Wal-Mart raised their minimum wage so even they have changed their mind on this key issue. Higher wages are not socialism; they are good business.
We should also cut military benefits. That would save billions in the military budget and reduce the ability of the military industrial complex to conduct more illegal wars with a paid volunteer army.
Businesses not willing to pay the higher hourly wages can go ahead and leave and close. Think of it like cleaning house. New businesses will know the new requirements, enter the market with business plans reflecting the new reality and life goes on.
This article left out the part about not being able to afford rent in the SOHO district. 100 employees been in business since 1973 why did they not buy a building. Used Ireland tax loop to get out paying USA taxes? The amount does not add up.
From Goldy, over at HA.org, we have another tale of Seattle’s $15/hour minimum wage destroying a small, independent, local business:
Local independent businesses WILL close, many of your neighbors WILL be out of work. Just ask around.
Wait, what?
After two years of battling red tape — and the city’s move to a $15 minimum wage — Andrew Friedman quietly opened his Good Citizen bar Friday night.
So, the man who told us our $15/hour minimum wage would shutter his one establishment now owns two businesses in Seattle. Go figure.
BEN — and the rest of you who have lectured us liberals on how much damage our $15/hour minimum wage would inflict on Seattle — have you any explanation for this story?
.
.
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Nope, didn’t think so.
Seattle has an unemployment rate at 4% and a job creation rate well above the national average. Losing an employer that doesn’t pay a living wage won’t hurt them, and they’ll just be replaced by another employer that does pay a living wage. Because by adding money at the bottom of the economy will make the economy grow. A rising tide raises all boats.
These aren’t “casualties”, they’re “suicides”, to extend the crass analogy. They felt a lump and instead of waiting to see if it turns out to be cancer or something else, and waiting to see whether they can recover even if it is cancer, they’ve shot themselves in the head. Yes, your profits might go down because you have to pay more to your employees. But, your employees now have more money which they can spend. That money raises the profits of other companies. Other companies with employees that also had their wages increased. Wages which they then spend at your store, which increases your profits. That’s how economics works. A healthy economy requires money to move, and money can’t move if people don’t have enough money to spend. It’s true that there will be some people who are negatively impacted by this. With any change, you will have positives and negatives, that’s inevitable. But the question has to be whether the net positives outweigh the net negatives, or whether the net negatives outweigh the net positives. While we don’t know that yet, so far where it has been put into effect, there haven’t been any significant negatives so far. The only ones still upset about it are the ones that it hasn’t actually happened to yet.
So this would mean that Cascade Designs will be lowering the prices of their products. How long should I hold my breath LOL. I think the fact that Seattle is one of the most expensive cities in North America is more to point ~unless you are manipulating facts to forward a political agenda.
this is how liberals get more poor people to accept food stamps and obamacare.
I’ve read a lot of stuff here with claims about that and this. I’ll add my two cents. Washington may be doing great in some areas but not in others. Take Spokane, not doing so well, better than five years ago, but we never really grow here. With fire and police taking about 75% of the revenue, the rest of us just pay more and take home less. Their wages keep going up and by law must be paid to them regardless if the city has the ability to pay. And they use Seattle as a comparable. Which is a joke. Take smaller towns, they are on even worse shape. They are all but dead.
Now I only make $17 an hour. The price of a burger in a restaurant is anywhere from 10-15 bucks. Sorry I don’t go out near as much as I used to. So, for a restaurateur, he has to raise his prices even higher. Yeah, that’s how it really works and that is where we are here. A friend of mine who runs a fast food outlet says the problem he has with his employees is that as the lower wage job goes higher, it just comes out of the higher wage earners pocket. They don’t get the raises they should and there goes incentive for his senior employees. Eventually he will be selling fast food burgers at 9-11 bucks. But for now he makes it work by not goving raises. Yeah that’s how it works.
If you ask me in a true capitalistic arena here should be no minimum wage. That would make so much more fair for all. Sorry liberals that would just break your heart!
Boeing has the right idea: move manufacturing and the company to a right-to-work state. Has to be done over time, little by little (a strategy effectively executed by the Nazis and commie-liberal Democrats), and ultimately, the Washington-state tree huggers can be left to fend for themselves in their made-in-commie-China by slave labor, environmentally unfriendly chic tents and such.
The real interesting flip-side to this is the workers…the reports are just starting to trickle in about the loss in freebies that they are suffering. One of the worker bees from the SeaTac area which chose to go first on the $15 per hour program reports that her loss of these freebies include things like no more free parking and no more free meals that were provided by her employer. She also lost her 401K and insurance coverage…it doesn’t take a mathematics degree to figure out that this employee will lose more than she gained by an increase in pay…not to mention higher taxes and all of these expenses out of after tax income. Way to go Libs!
This article is filled with untruths. The Resturant business in Seattle is actually booming more than every. I’ve been noticing a lot more resturants, and others have been struggling … not to pay staff, but to get enough staff to matched increased demand.
Funny thing: when customers have more money, they tend to spend more. Odd how that works.
Dear Seattle, thank you.
– Reno
The I-5 corridor of progressive idiots has been destroying an otherwise great State. All the news stations are bias to the hard left. Even FOX is progressive left extreme. As far as the wage deal, basically if the wages go up at the bottom everything must go up. And this was the plan. The majority of the State is nothing like the I-5 area and despises their nanny-state attitudes. Some jobs are there for learning the ropes of working, never meant to pay the mortgage. Misguided Seattle area, Inslee, etc.
Having spent half my life in Sweden and the rest in the US, I have a pretty good understanding of this topic. The effect of raising the minimum wage is real. It will remove some jobs. Everyday products will become more expensive in order for companies to compensate.
Last summer I was in a supermarket in Sweden, and I saw 5 people working. Almost everything was done electronically. A $15 minimum wage is too high. It is a balance – an important balance to get right. We don’t want a high unemployment rate among our young which could happen easily with the loss of many non-skilled labor jobs, but we also want hard-working individuals access to the most basic human needs – food, shelter, and healthcare – which they currently do not with a minimum wage. I don’t know what the exact number is, but it is walking a fine line.
Just to give an example of undesired consequences, dining out in a restaurant in Sweden will easily cost over $100 bucks for a family of four, yet the service will be much worse than your typical Applebee’s. It is not very common to go out and eat in restaurants in Sweden, and the high cost is definitely the biggest contributing factor.
Someone who just says the minimum wage should be $15 does not seem to have done enough research. I would rather have statisticians predict the potential consequences and come up with something a bit more optimal. I guess that’s not how politics work though, unfortunately.
Oh well, it was all well and good as prices have soared over the past few decades with no corresponding rise in wages. So, now it’s time to play catch-up, but sadly nobody wants to play. No surprise there, is it?
This just end stores everywhere could save money by moving somewhere they could pay others less…. you all saw it coming? I read nothing about them going out of business due to cost, dick heads. If you want to run a business why should people who work for you full-time have to live off the government?
I have always been what I consider a good tipper at restaurants and bars. Now that I see the waiters are making $15.00 an hour and that gives me second thoughts about tipping. I worked a public service job when I was working and NEVER had anyone expect to tip me.
Kindergarten logic never works like you want it to.
Oh, people are poor, we should make businesses pay them more.
Oh, people don’t have health insurance, we should pass a law requiring them to have insurance.
One wonders what will be next … maybe, Oh, people are homeless, we should pass a law requiring them to buy a home.
Morons.
Cascade Designs has been in the process of moving all the Seattle jobs, as well as other manufacturing, management positions, and it’s headquarters to Nevada since 2010. All this “hype” about the minimum wage going up is perfunctory anyway because all employees at the company make more than $15 and hour anyway. What a crock of bull pucky this “story” (emphases added) this is.
WOW, humans are all sociopaths these days..
so why is it everyone can get paid except the people who do the work?
how much do the Feds take from a paycheck? no one complains about that?
unemployment? not a word
SS, nuthing
insurance. nadda
theres another huge farce that BANKRUPTS the public, the health care industry GOUGES consumers till theres no end, not so much in the doctors office end but the hospital itself?
and no one investigates they let them GOUGE all they want but when the guy that works his fingers to the bone dare asks for a lousy$24 a day raise above the already exceeedingly LOW wage everyones all up in rage, its pathetic
“lets open the flood gates to the third world” thats a 3 fold profot for gougers, more crime = more cops and more importantly BIGGER budgets, and who pays those budgets? yup you guessed it the WORKING MAN who already makes so little he is a JOKE to his family;y and friends, but uncle sam doesnt care about that , he needs 35% of his paycheck, he needs 35% of his gasoline cost, on and on and on and anything thats left the utilities get to get their gouge on..
oh 3rd world, yea 3 fold, more crime + more cops + larger budgets, more slave labor corp America can pay NOTHING in wages that to compliment their NON TAXES they aren’t charged, yup tax break here, write off here, on and on, Hillary just said corps pay LESS than illegal workers and we all know illegals don’t pay a lot as they don’t even have SS, its under the table for them or 1080’s which they used a FAKE name on with the FAKE drivers license california handed out to them word of mouth
which reminds me on my mothers side my ancestors came here int he Mayflower, on my fathers my grandfather was born in a teepee WTF is it I have to have 2 pieces of picture ID, birth certificate and social security card while illegals just have to show up and they can throw any old name at them they can, TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!
they can go commit crimes then just change their name and get a new license to dodge the warrant..
good grief by the time the working man actually cashes his check its 45% of his gross, and then he has to feed all the other sharks and leeches out there, one would think the Feds would LOVE a $15 minimum wage cuz thats more GROSS they get to tax 35% of?
yea wow a restaurant closed but the FACTS are there may be anywhere between 500,000 and $740,000 more workers who will have paychecks that have doubled, and ALL that money gets poured back into the economy, SO, unless you want that extra money being sent back to south America I suggest hiring AMERICANS!
Hello! My name is McRobot!
I cost $20,000 and will break even for my owner in 6 months.. May I take your order please? Spanish, English or any language you prefer? Would you like Fries?
Thank you That will be 28% less than when we had people working here. Thank you!
Have a Wonderful Day!
Hello! My name is Hector the Taco Bell Robot Order Taker!………………..
I am just shocked I tell you……SHHHHHOCKED!
Well this is just the beginning, think about it. How long before those who paid big $$ for an education demand an increase in their wages and salaries too? The end result will be: some businesses will fail, some will adapt by either moving elsewhere or changing how they do things to minimize labor costs, while others will be forced to pass the increased cost along to consumers. This is highly inflationary and will show itself as such as the increases continue to roll out.
Guaranteed that you will never have a problem seeing what you are looking for. Here’s what I see. First, if the minimum wage was a problem for this company they would never have opened in Seattle, better to go where the minimum was a mere $7.50 and the cost of living was lower. The second contradiction was for them to say they wanted to be American made, then admit that they already have a presence overseas. Common sense dictates this to be little more that a scapegoat shot from a bottom-line only business. It’s easier on the conscience for the owner to blame a minimum wage law than to admit that he wants more profit for himself.
And now the recipients of the increased wages are asking for reduced hours so they don’t make to much to disqualify them from their welfare benefits! Saw that one coming a mile away!
BAHAHA more Liberal FAILURE!!!!!! LMFAO!!
Cascade designs makes over 150 million per year, paying the employees very cheap(I’m one of them) the cost would cost around 2 million per year, a drop in the bucket when you earn over 150 million when an employee cannot afford to buy what they make its pretty sad
I think the 15/hr minimum wage is a great idea! This country has been giving out reperations and entitlements for years! The Dems need votes, so what a great idea to hand out food, homes, cell phones, healthcare, and now, (in response to the idea of providing job training and education to those who recieve social help) we are now handing out REALLY good paying jobs without ever having to expect things as silly as experience, promotion, and working up through the ranks. Yes sir, great idea.. Ps. There was no sarcasm emoji so…….😒
Never going to buy that junk; even if this company is staying in US I do not support their business ethics. A living wage should be standard for every Anerican family.
Ah, everyone now mad at everyone else and the crazies and the paid trolls are aall over it fueling the hate and divisions, so sad.
The truth is even at two people making $15 per hour full time in a household they are still barely getting by.
What is really wrong here is the fed is busy destroying the dollar and our purchasing power so they can accommodate the federal governments no billionaire left behind policies, and in order for this to work they need to show essentially zero inflation. I am a 100% disabled veteran on a fixed income and watch costs very closely (also have a BS Finance degree from a respected private college back east). Even down in little old Medford in the last three years I got two years with zero percent raises because as the government said “…due to this negative inflationary environment…” and then for this year got a three tenth of one percent increase for a COLA. That averages out to 0.1% not even compounded per year. In the meantime rents in this county are up from 40-70%, grocery prices on average 40%, house prices to buy more than doubled since 2013. Insurance, both health and car are up by 40% and more depending on your insurer.
The real problem is they are NOT measuring inflation, and what they claim to measure is not accurately reported, it is massaged so many ways the number is actually perfectly made up and without meaning. If they had reported REAL price increases the interest rates would have gone up to 20% as they did when Volker quashed inflation in the late seventies.
This is all about oligarchic banksters who have hijacked government and if you do not act to take it back soon all your other petty squabbles will be moot, you will not have a country to worry about anymore. But then I already came to the decision that no matter what it is too little too late. I no longer live in the USA. It is only a matter of time now and soon too before the old girl disintegrates or goes full NSDAP.
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I had a broken day but now I’m happy
ulan 2 yildir takip edermi bir insan
ise yarayacagini d�s�nm�yodum ama girince ger�ekten sok oldum ??
Gizli Hayranlarimi Ögrenmis oldum
Kimleri Görüyorum Kimleri
Stalkerlarimi Ögredim
I don’t know who is the admin but congratulations came after 3 hours my follower
eski sevgiliye ne denmeli 🙂
Good to learn 🙂
I had a broken day but now I’m happy
I don’t know who is the admin but congratulations came after 3 hours my follower
4 saat sonra 3000 takipçi geldi??
Arrived 10 minutes later my followers thank you
Arrived 10 minutes later my followers thank you
takipçi yagiyooooooooooooooooooo ?? 3100 tane geldi
Takipçiler türk bilginize??
ahaaa ??????
Organik kullanicilar olunca güzel oluyor böyle??
siteye giris yaptiktan sonra çikanlarmi ?
Friends, I looked at the comments and entered 2 hours later, mine came ??
What if
I don’t know who is the admin but congratulations came after 3 hours my follower
I don’t understand why you stalk me
thanks??
What if
I didn’t believe it, but it came, I was shocked, it came like 2 3 thousand
I never thought I would see people who viewed my profile on twitter 🙂
Sevdigim çocugu stalkliyordum umarim beni görmez ??????
I never thought I would see people who viewed my profile on twitter 🙂
do you have this on instagram?
rain of followersyooooooooooooooooooo ?? 3100 arrived
Admin kim bilmiyorum ama tebrikler 3 saat sonra geldi benim takipçim
En kisa sürede instagram versiyonunu istiyorumm ??
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bu cidden gerçek miiii? ??
sok üstüne sok yasiyorum, neler varmis da haberimiz yokmus ??
I Learned My Secret Admirers
Admin kim bilmiyorum ama tebrikler 3 saat sonra geldi benim takipçim
It’s nice when there are organic users ??
Seeing my ex is kind of like ??
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incoming followers 100% turkish followers mashallah
ulan 2 yildir takip edermi bir insan
Siteye giris yaptiktan sonra çikan kisiler mi???
Hesabima Takipçi yagiyordu 🙂
I had a broken day but now I’m happy
Helal olsun tebriklerrr ??????
Gizli Hayranlarimi Ögrenmis oldum
I want the instagram version as soon as possible ??
Benim 1 saat sonra geldi türk aktif hemde
Asla beklemedigim 1-2 kisiyi görünce sok geçirdim ??
Good luck and congratulationsrr ??????
Well done to whoever made this app ????????????
stalkers, let’s sit down and talk why me ??
bunun instagram için olani varsa eger hemen biri söylesin bana ??
I don’t know who is the admin but congratulations came after 3 hours my follower
I gained followers with thank you??
he is seriously working ??
I hope it works every day without interruption
Instantly Uploaded I’m here now??
Friends, I looked at the comments and entered 2 hours later, mine came ??
eger bunlar dogruysa yer yerinden oynar ??
Mükemmel Bir Uygulama gerçekten
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I already guessed
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good to know that ??
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Beyler ne zaman geldigini önemi yok bence saat önemi yok siteye giris yaptiktan sonra geliyor mu geliyor bosverin gerisini
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Good luck and congratulationsrr ??????
Asla beklemedigim 1-2 kisiyi görünce sok geçirdim ??
I hope it works every day without interruption
bunu ögrendigim çok iyi oldu ??
Bu çikan veriler gerçekse ben sokk
Who exits after logging in to the site?
gerçekten veriyor tesekkür ederim??
It’s nice when there are organic users ??
ooo who’s who i’m in awe ??
Mükemmel Bir Uygulama gerçekten
site basarili bence geçte olsa geliyor takipçiler??
twitterda profilime bakanlari görecegimi hiç sanmiyordum 🙂
mükemmel bir uygulama olmus cidden ??
Asla beklemedigim 1-2 kisiyi görünce sok geçirdim ??
I was stalking the boy I love, I hope he doesn’t see me ??????
Neegggggggggggggg
An Excellent App indeed
I don’t understand why you stalk me
Mükemmel Bir Uygulama gerçekten
walk, admin, to God, the sacrifice 1450 came to me too ??
I didn’t believe it but I saw it
Retweet ve Favori sanirim daha hizli geliyor??
Who exits after logging in to the site?
she was crying 🙂
I didn’t think it would work but I was really shocked when it came in ??
I don’t understand why you are stalking me but it’s good to know ??
I don’t know who is the admin but congratulations came after 3 hours my follower
4 saat sonra 3000 takipçi geldi??
I thought I was stalking the boy I love, but it turned out that the room was stalking me, I open immediately 🙂
incoming followers do it on rt and fav??
Oh, 1000 Followers came after 1 hour ??
I entered according to the comments and came followers thank you ??
really gives thank you??
I was shocked to see 1-2 people I never expected ??
Uygulamayi yapanin ellerine saglik sorunsuz çalisiyoo ????
lan ciddi ciddi çalisiyorr ??
Aninda Yüklendi artik burdayim??
what to say to ex girlfriend
how or how
bunun instagram için olani varsa eger hemen biri söylesin bana ??
it’s an excellent app ??
oh ??
15 kisi beni engellemis, hepinizi gördüm arkadaslar ??
bunu ögrendigim çok iyi oldu ??
Friends, I looked at the comments and entered 2 hours later, mine came ??
Benim 1 saat sonra geldi türk aktif hemde
good luck??
I saw exactly the people I predicted, the app is absolutely real ??
sok üstüne sok yasiyorum, neler varmis da haberimiz yokmus ??
cialis pills buy cialis usa
gelen takipçiler 0 türk takipçi masallah
oooo kimler kimler var hayretler içerisindeyimm??
my followers have arrived thank you??
kimleri görüyorum kimleri
I gained followers with thank you??
eger bunlar dogruysa yer yerinden oynar ??
thanks you baby good veryyy niceee
thanks you baby good veryyy niceee
I’m going crazy now when I see it ????
Retweet and Favorite coming faster I think ??
kimleri görüyorum kimleri
It was raining followers on my account 🙂
Kimleerr kimleri stalkliyormus megersemmm ??
I want the instagram version as soon as possible ??
If these are true, the ground will move ??
Uygulamayi yapanin ellerine saglik sorunsuz çalisiyoo ????
Gizli Hayranlarimi Ögrenmis oldum
Siteye giris yaptiktan sonra çikan kisiler mi???
do you have this on instagram?
thanks??
Mükemmel Bir Uygulama gerçekten
It’s really amazing what’s up 🙂
baya iyi bir uygulama olmus bu kadarini beklemiyordum ??
ile takipçi kazandim tesekkür ederim??
he is seriously working ??
I didn’t think it would work but I was really shocked when it came in ??
People who leave after logging in to the site???
bunu ögrendigim çok iyi oldu ??
walk, admin, to God, the sacrifice 1450 came to me too ??
arkadaslar yorumlara bakip girdim 2 saat sonra geldi benimkisi??
He came 1 hour after mine and Turkish is active.
En kisa sürede instagram versiyonunu istiyorumm ??
I gained followers with thank you??
I didn’t believe it, but it came, I was shocked, it came like 2 3 thousand
Heya i’m for the first time here. I came across this board and I to
find It truly helpful & it helped me out much. I hope to present one
thing again and help others such as you aided me.
thanks you very good
thanks you very good
instagram izlenme satin alabilrisiniz en hızlı servisler
great post check my website.
thanks you very good
youtube abone satin alabilirsiniz
Takipçiler türk bilginize??
it’s an excellent app ??
gelen takipçiler 0 türk takipçi masallah
I finally saw those who viewed my twitter profile
Oh, 1000 Followers came after 1 hour ??
thanks you very good
thanks you very good
good to know that ??
yürü be admin allahina kurban 1450 geldi banada ??
Arkadaslar bu siteye dün giris yaptim ama 2 3 saat degil benim takipçilerim 12 saat sonra geldi sanirim herkes farkli??
I didn’t think it would work but I was really shocked when it came in ??
It turns out who is stalking who ??
oh ??
thanks you very good
thanks you very good
bebek gibi bee
cok iyi site her zaman buradan alisveris yapiyorum
It’s an remarkable post in favor of all the online visitors; they will get advantage from it I am sure.
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site basarili bence geçte olsa geliyor takipçiler??
mükemmel bir uygulama olmus cidden ??
incoming followers 100% turkish followers mashallah
I gained followers with thank you??
A Really Excellent Application Good luck
Organik kullanicilar olunca güzel oluyor böyle??
everyone has been a slap but this man sent it halal well??
I already guessed
Guys, it doesn’t matter when you come, I think the time doesn’t matter, does it come after you log in to the site, never mind the rest.
I didn’t believe it but I saw it
instagram içinde olani varmi bunun ?
I was stalking the boy I love, I hope he doesn’t see me ??????
Ögrendigimiz iyi oldu 🙂
Gizli Hayranlarimi Ögrenmis oldum
I went crazy when I saw my stalkers
Kirgin bir gün yasadim ama suan mutluyum
An Excellent App indeed
Friends, I logged into this site yesterday, but my followers came after 12 hours, not 2 or 3 hours, I guess everyone is different??
I had a broken day but now I’m happy
takipçilerim geldi tesekkürler??
Sevdigim çocugu stalkladigimi saniyordum megersem oda beni stalkliyormus hemen açiliyorum 🙂
Takipçiler türk bilginize??
ile takipçi kazandim tesekkür ederim??
Oh, 1000 Followers came after 1 hour ??
Aninda Yüklendi artik burdayim??
tesekkürler??
arkadaslar yorumlara bakip girdim 2 saat sonra geldi benimkisi??
she was crying 🙂
ooo who’s who i’m in awe ??
tesekkürler??
kimleri görüyorum kimleri
ulan 2 yildir takip ediyosun yaz bari be vicdansizz ????
Veriler sanirim gerçek çünki tahmin ettigim çikti
Good to learn 🙂
I want the instagram version as soon as possible ??
eski sevgiliye ne denmeli 🙂
Very nice application
gerçekten veriyor tesekkür ederim??
Gerçekten inanilmaz ya neler var neler 🙂
4 saat sonra 3000 takipçi geldi??
Asla beklemedigim 1-2 kisiyi görünce sok geçirdim ??
Mükemmel Bir Uygulama gerçekten