The Seattle Times ultra-liberal economic columnist Jon Talton asked a question in his weekend column that has probably crossed the mind of other taxpayers in the Jet City: “Has Seattle ever had a City Council so determined to enforce progressive aspirations on the private sector and micromanage businesses?“
After documenting the city’s recent list of so-called progressive regulations imposed on businesses – from the $15 minimum wage, mandatory paid sick leave, even to outlawing plastic bags – Talton decides that Seattle’s “leaders” get away with their unabashed anti-business approach “because they can”.
A major reason that Seattle’s economic redistributors, led by Mayor Ed Murray, “can” impose Soviet-style regulations on the business community is because of the ironic fact that the city is going through a an economic boom that can survive the silliness of its elected leaders.
The current wave of regulations being considered – taking control from businesses about how they can schedule and hire their employees, telling landlords who they must rent their property to, and deciding that independent contractors like Uber drivers are eligible to form a union – will push Seattle even further onto the leftward ledge of economic thinking. As Talton wrote, “Seattle now is on the leading edge of left-wing legislation at the municipal level. Try to keep up, San Francisco.”
Given the unrelenting activist streak – and lack of any business experience – of the city’s current council members (and the big money local unions which provide the cash to keep them in office), the next question for Talton and Seattle’s taxpayers might be “is there no end to this lunacy?”
To answer the question posed in the final paragraph… the end of the lunacy won’t come until Seattle looks like Detroit does now.
Seattle WILL look like Detroit, eventually. It just needs a few more decades of Democratic rule.
The naysayers who rejected the negative affects of the $15 minimum wage declared victory when all of the small businesses didn’t shut down in the first week. Give the situation a realistic time frame and see what happens. Even Obamacare didn’t fail in the first few years of its existence, but just look at it now…
Seattle WILL look like Detroit, eventually. It just needs a few more decades of Democratic rule.
So, your answer to my question is thirty years?
The naysayers who rejected the negative affects [sic] of the $15 minimum wage declared victory when all of the small businesses didn’t shut down in the first week.
Maybe that’s because Shift claimed businesses in Seattle were closing even before the minimum wage increase went into effect?
Give the situation a realistic time frame and see what happens.
By all means, get back to us in thirty years. (And not a moment sooner.)
They left before the $15/hr wage mandate started because they knew it was coming and wanted to get out from under it. What is hard to understand about that?
Our city leaders are are crooks and thieves, and they are exploiting the natural beauty of this area and the fact that young professionals want to move here in droves.
And it won’t take anywhere near 30 years if there is ever another major
economic downturn in Seattle because they are in the process of destroying the infrastructure that
supports a city during these downturns, namely families.
Families are moving out, and young transients with no investment in the community are moving in. Are they going to stay here if times get tough? No. They will go home to their farms in Nebraska.
Got any proof for any of that? Nope, didn’t think so.
Look, if you don’t like Seattle’s policies, that’s fine, but calling people names and making weird assertions without facts (young professionals moving to Seattle all come from farms in Nebraska?!?) helps nobody.
Actually several of restaurants and other small businesses have SAID outright they were leaving. This happened in SF as well. As for Nebraska, that was a euphemism only a native might understand. Not worth explaining to you.
So, for how long does Seattle need to outperform the rest of the state economically before you guys concede your ideas are failures?
(Also, exactly how did eliminating plastic bags harm businesses?)
Seattle out performs other places because of about 3 large companies. I think we all know who they are. With out them many other companies. Also it survives because of Eastern WA and all the billion s that go through the port. Call it luck at this point. I live in Belltown and have seen business close and continue to see it. You slam Eastern WA Because to most people here nothing exist east of Lake Washington. I was born here in Seattle but lived in Eastern WA. I was on a city council and also worked for a governmental agency. WE as a city got a 4 year city wide project done on time and in budget. Why? because we had to. Where I worked we got a 200 million dollar project done on time and under budget. Why? Because we had to. Projects run by people who run business and knew what to do. So explain to me why just this last year Seattle was 200 million over budget on projects for just the year? Why? because they are idiots who have never run a business and they don’t have to. Why? because the three or four major employers in the city, that also spring off smaller employers ( All major Capitalists by the way) keep the city afloat. Also, I was in Spokane a month ago for a few days. I was hard pressed to find to many homeless people. I only noticed because I didn’t notice them. Yep! all is good here in Seattle. The homeless are thrilled as are all the other people and businesses getting priced out. The city has been bit in the past, remember the sign, will the last one to leave Seattle turn the lights out? OH! and on a side note, I heard the other day my apartment building, you know one of the tall ones in town? well they are losing money. Interesting I thought.
Don’t expect a know-nothing newcomer to understand. Every decent person who has cared about Seattle and has roots here has left or is planning to leave. That means there is no one left here except the know-nothing, money-grubbing newcomers who are only here to make money and grab up whatever the city “has to offer” them. They are like locusts, driving out the community and creating a barren, soulless, and sterile wasteland. Let them burn the city to ashes and let them perish in the fires they set. I’m out.
I get it. I was Born here, then lived in Eastern WA but most my business and friends are here. I see what you’re seeing. Its not good. City is losing those who care. I have seen it. I am here for a while. I hate to say, but I have started my business, but lately because of decisions I see happening here and statewide, I will probably move it. I actually told my consultant I work with the other day that very thing. I believe in doing best for my employees and giving them a great fun place to work. But it is a business and I don’t need to over pay for things because the city thinks my pockets are loaded. I don’t need them telling how to run things. I worked for a big government agency, I saw stupid decisions they covered up from the public but I also saw great things accomplished when the right people were on the projects. I come from a long line of business owners, and It was time for me to do my thing. Sorry but after a year or so here, I will move.
Seattle out performs other places because of about 3 to 5 large companies. I think we all know who they are.
Boeing, Starbucks, and Amazon were all once Seattle start-ups, yes, and Microsoft was formed elsewhere by Seattle natives and then was moved here by them. Have you any idea why Seattle has grown such amazing companies for 100 years now?
Also it survives because of Eastern WA and all the billions from there that go through the port.
You might want to check your facts on that:
“Due to strong aircraft orders Boeing exports were a bright spot, climbing 6 percent last year to $51.5 billion. But even with Boeing, total state exports still dropped 5 percent last year, to $86 billion.”
So, Boeing — you know, that one-time Seattle startup — provided (51.6/86)x100 = 60% of Washington state’s exports.
But hey, agricultural products from Eastern Washington were still a big deal, right?
“All of these export numbers are somewhat skewed by the fact that U.S. customs list soybean exports as local origin to Washington, when in fact they come from the Midwest.”
Oh well. Thanks for playing, and better luck next time!
You’re right, Boeing exports a lot, probably the most. Yet because of the taxes they also moved their headquarters to Chicago. Plants are in South Carolina, perhaps lower taxes? and other factors? They also have a plant in St Louis. Guess what, they have a facility in Eastern WA too. I looked at the census bureau and as far as I can tell 15 of the top 25 exports are produced or part produced in Eastern WA. Also in Eastern WA are Yahoo, Microsoft, Dell BMW, ALCOA not to mention the farming and other companies. Why there and not here? Taxes, low power costs, less regulation, no one trying to tell them how to run their businesses?
OK Boeing makes up 60% of the exports. But they don’t employ 60% of the people in in the Puget Sound or Washington. Most people here and in our country work for small business, the ones this city council are trying to kill. There is a point where taxes and regulations are just to much. As I said, I am seeing it, small businesses closing. I have a few friends in business here and all different types. They tell me that their business is OFF close to 25% from a couple years ago. So are things really great?
As for Eastern WA, Hundreds of different crops. All of them are either exported or feed everyone here. I could name the crops grown in Eastern WA, many that we lead the world in but the list is a bit long.
Basically its this, The city is doing well despite the stupid decisions of the elected official. The city is doing well because of LARGE employers fueling the economy, for now. This does not give the elected officials the right to make stupid decisions. We all make errors, it happens. City officials are not elected to push a social agendas. They are not elected to form unions. They are not here to decide how you should run your business. They are not here to be your parent. Their job is to run the city, PERIOD. and they do a very poor job of that here.
Whether its the city lying about things, running way over budget and deadlines, Sound transit doing the same, the state piling on with their decisions, it all cost everyone.
Plants are in South Carolina, perhaps lower taxes? and other factors?
Wrong answer. Try doing some research next time. (Hint: Boeing did not own the plant there when it was built.)
… low power costs,
Yes, the state of Washington has long subsidized the Alcoa plant with tax breaks, and it exists because of government-supplied hydropower from the Columbia River. You’re not really helping your small-government case here.
I do like how being proven totally wrong on your first assertion hasn’t prevented you from making more assertions. (Heck, it didn’t even slow you down.) Aren’t you now supposed to lecture us liberals about personal responsibility?
Lord knows Seattle could use better leaders; I’m not doubting that at all. My question is simple: for how many years does Seattle have to out-perform the rest of the state economically before you guys stop stating as Truth that Seattle’s liberal policies hurt business? That’s a serious question. Give me a number.
Gotta a news flash for ya, tensie… there is virtually, if not actually, any Boeing production in Seattle. Everett, Renton, Frederickson, and a lot of out of state locations is where Boeing produces aircraft of all types for the world. Just not in Seattle anymore. Too bad, so sad… for you!
Clay, I think you’re onto something there. You should really go around telling everyone how Boeing is not a Seattle company. That would put your self-proclaimed knowledge of aviation in proper context.
Oh, and Clay: before an aircraft can be delivered, it must be researched, designed, and tested. Boeing does plenty of that in Seattle, too. Just thought you’d like to know.
Gotta another news flash for ya tensie, I’ve been involved in aviation for nearly 50 years. Got a student pilot license in 1967, private license the same year and commercial license in 1968. Plus, I spent 25 years with a very large government transportation agency that regulates all aspects of aviation.
So where did you get the idea that Boeing researches, designs and tests their aircraft in Seattle? get a clue, for most of the production of aircraft at the Everett/Paine Field plant, most of it happens in their engineering office located there, not in Seattle.
Even the 737… final production happens in Renton, but the fuselages are manufactured in Wichita, KS then shipped by rail to the Renton plant.
Why Boeing has any presence left in Seattle is probably just for the historical aspects. Boeing HQ, moved to Chicago… Boeing aircraft production, a lot of places, but not in Seattle and the same goes for most design, research and testing.
Boeing hasn’t yet left Seattle completely, however, it’s presence has been drastically reduced since the Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas merger; apparently you aren’t you paying attention.
So where did you get the idea that Boeing researches, designs and tests their aircraft in Seattle?
Because I worked in those labs and test offices, which are still there.
Thanks for playing.
Yeah, right!
Typical — the guy who blows his own horn the longest and hardest will immediately call b.s. on anyone else. (Why oh why on earth could that possibly be, I wonder?)
But please, by all means, keep telling everyone the Boeing employs no R&D, design, or test engineers in Seattle. Continue to mock anyone who dares claim otherwise, and pompously inform them that your decades of inspecting
airplanespaperwork on the government dime makes you an expert on something other than collecting paychecks from us taxpayers.Good luck with that.
“Also it survives because of Eastern WA” Would love to see some stats on that. From a reputable source.
My post on Rawstory about Red White and Blue phone alerts that you thought was a zinger, was just removed, and I was banned.
Government has never in all of history done anything that was not a detriment to progress, that is a fact. I have been going out of me way for over a decade, to not spend money within Seattle because of their ignorant policies, even when it is very inconvenient to do so. So yes their policies do hurt business, as all government intervention does.
Government has never in all of history done anything that was not a detriment to progress, that is a fact.
You typed that into a computer and sent it through the Internet. One was developed by the U.S. and UK governments during WWII, and the other by the US government during the Cold War. That is a fact.
That is not a fact. It was developed by people that that could have done it better, and done it sooner if the government was never involved. Government always has and always will be a cancer on human progress.
First, those are facts, as even you backhandedly conceded:
It was developed by people that that could have done it better, and done it sooner if the government was never involved.
So why didn’t they? What was stopping them?
Oh yeah — they didn’t have access to an open-ended supply of capital with no interest charged or payback ever even expected. Governments can provide that.
Government always has and always will be a cancer on human progress.
Tell it brother! Use the machinery of big government to tell it! Never wonder why nobody ever believes you, either!
You poor brainwashed idiot.
Probably spend the rest of your life sucking the teat of Big Brother just because you’re too brainwashed to do anything on your own. What a waste of human ingenuity. Pathetic.
Government always has and always will be a cancer on human progress.
Aw, Clay’s not *that* bad. 😀
If you actually believe your “fact” that computers and the internet were developed solely by the government, you’re a bigger idiot than anyone ever imagined. If government hadn’t gotten out of the way, there would be no such thing as PCs, smart phones or the modern internet. When the government was involved, you had to have a mainframe and burn through a ream of tractor feed paper to send a message that said “Hi there” That’s a fact
DARPAnet. Look it up. While you’re at it, tell us what “DARPA” stands for.
You really are a bigger idiot than anyone ever imagined. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. I don’t have to look anything up, I know far more about the ARPAnet than you do, fool. Unlike you, I actually saw it in operation. My dad, working for a greedy, for-profit, capitalistic corporation, was one of the developers. A modem the size of a large suitcase with suction cups where you stuck the phone handset on, a keyboard and a tractor feed printer that drew continuous paper from one box and deposited it in another box on the other side. No monitor. Certainly no mouse. He would type in code for a while and the printer would print a response. He’d then look over the printout, underline a few lines of code with a pencil and go back to typing. That must be exactly what your computing experience is like today. What a half-wit.
IBM, Sperry, Honeywell, Control Data, Univac and other companies developed the ARPAnet. Aside from confiscating money from one group of people to give to another group, the government has done NOTHING to develop anything, ever. That’s a fact.
Aside from confiscating money from one group of people to give to another group, the government has done NOTHING to develop anything, ever. That’s a fact.
The money — you know, the capital to develop the computers and network– came from the US government, which had “confiscated” it via taxation and then “given” it to contractors at private firms, university research departments , and government agencies — the military-industrial complex. (The Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, SAIL, was an early consumer of DARPA funds.) Computers filled whole rooms back then; their air-conditioning could weigh more than the machine itself.
All your corporate name-dropping shows is that yoku don’t understand those companies were contractors, working on the government dime. It was just as in the US Air Force, which didn’t build the B-52; Boeing did, with US government money. Do you really think there would *ever* have been a consumer market for those early, room-sized computers? For decades, our government was “confiscating” our money and “giving” it to this “group” of private companies; it took decades of such capital infusions from government before private industry could develop the technology to produce the home computers of the early 1980s.
(And yes, I’ve used suction-cup modems with baud rates in the hundreds, back in that day. I thus sent written messages hundreds of miles to my friends at their school’s PDP12. Not quite e-mail, but it got the job done.)
Stop proving you’re a bigger idiot than anyone ever imagined.
The government doesn’t have a dime they haven’t confiscated from from one group to give to another group and besides, this just proves the point that government has NEVER developed, invented, innovated or improved ANYTHING. They just pay for it with somebody else’s money.
“Do you really think there would *ever* have been a consumer market for those early, room-sized computers?”
A consumer market? Of course not, moron. A business market? Absolutely. My dad worked for businesses that had mainframes and banks of tape drives who had nothing to do with government contracting. Your *ignorance* is on display for all to see.
“I’ve used suction-cup modems with baud rates in the hundreds, back in that day”
Unless “that day” is today, you and Al Gore can give up your freedom-hating, control-loving fantasy of big government invention and development of computers and the internet. Throw out your mouse and monitor, too, and get off this privately developed website.
Yes, we already know your Inner Party has commanded the absolute subordination of all your speech to pure ideological mandate, and so you obediently rail with your usual (i.e. impotent) rage when you hear Oldspeak terms like “taxation”, and “government-funded.” But those of us not subject to your beloved Party’s discipline know perfectly well Boeing would not have built GPS satellites without government contracts from the United States Air Force, and the DARPAnet would not have existed to become this internet without lots of money from the Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency — as in “Department of Defense,” fully and completely part of the U.S. Gov’t.
You can yell “idiot” and “moron” like you’ve just stumbled into full view of a mirror, and it won’t change any of this history one bit.
How about you restrict your own expression to media not originally created by the government, hm?
@tensor What’s up? Still defending the left wing I see. Do you get paid by them?
I bet you can’t wait for Hillary to be the next president for the next 8 years.
I do restrict this particular expression to media not created by the government. The internet and the world wide web. I use a mouse, and a monitor to interface with my desktop PC and communicate with all the .com’s out there, none of which the government had the slightest thing to do with “creating”
Unless you’re using a suction cup modem to a mainframe and reading this off a tractor feed printout, you can shut up about what government “created”
Your absolute dedication to your Party’s line is well-noted by the Inner Party, comrade. Especially admirable is your Party-approved doublethink, where you spout the Party’s line knowing full well that any reader, with a dozen keystrokes and a few clicks of the mouse, can circumvent your Memory Hole and reveal your duck-speak for what it is.
(Oh, and if you want to extol the virtues of private industry, reminding everyone that this error-filled web site is privately developed might not be the best way to go. Just saying.)
Still clicking your government-created mouse, comrade? Which agency gave us the world wide web? You know, the one that created the term website?
“…..you’re a bigger idiot than anyone ever imagined.” You keep saying that. I do not think this means what you think it means.
Who cares what you think?
I think Shift should bolster this post with the whacked-out Seattle ideas from the past that have never found acceptance in the rest of the state. Just to get you started, I offer the example of full equality for LGBTQ citizens, including the right to marry. Seattle has supported this idea for decades, but since when has anybody else in our State has ever followed Seattle’s lead?
(Why, as recently as 1996, the Republican majority in our legislature stayed late on a Saturday to ban gay marriage. Let’s see the voters statewide oppose that sensible act of conservative values!)
I am sorry, but I don’t think it will take that long, it already is littered with trash and drug addicts rule the city. I am going to say 3 years or less. I am afraid thought that will not change the city. Too many people smoke pot everyday and think they are ok, in spite of evidence that daily pot smoking is not ok.
Too many people smoke pot everyday and think they are ok, in spite of evidence that daily pot smoking is not ok.
While it certainly doesn’t seem to be doing you any favors, thank you for mentioning de-criminalization of cannabis: another far-left, wacked-out, crazy idea which will just never, ever be accepted statewide.
I think Shift needs to spend more time laughing at such silly Seattle notions.